Staff working while on annual leave

ddtc · Post by **ddtc** » 24 May 2016, 19:02

Noticed past few weeks that some posties at our office have come in or wanted to come in.

What is the unions stance on this?

I would never come in on my annual leave. Surely its unfair on people who might of wanted the week off. Managers work to rule makes me laugh when they allow staff to do things like this.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 24 May 2016, 19:10

ddtc wrote:
What is the unions stance on this?

.

'Way Forward' agreement under the section 'Taking Leave' it says -

"Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave. This means that employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance"

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 24 May 2016, 19:10

Interesting article on this subject http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/legal- ... n-holiday/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Legal opinion: Working while on holiday

By Joanna Marshall on 20 Aug 2012 in Employment law, Legal opinion, Opinion, Wellbeing, Working time regulations
wpid-holiday-retirement.jpg
The economic downturn has led to a rise in unemployment and an associated increase in competition for jobs, as well as an increase in workload and pressure on workers. Together with developments in technology, such as wi-fi and smartphones, this has led to a culture of people working outside their core hours and even working on holiday. Joanna Marshall of Charles Russell LLP looks at the legal risks to employers of employees carrying out work while on annual leave.

August is traditionally the peak holiday season in the UK but, according to a 2,500-strong poll recently commissioned by Regus, instead of resting, 39% of employees will be working up to three hours each day while on holiday and 8% will be working more than three hours per day. In addition, of those surveyed, 25% declared that they would be operating on a slightly reduced “business as usual” while on their holiday.

Under the Working Time Regulations 1998, workers are entitled to 28 days’ paid holiday per leave year including bank holidays (or the equivalent pro rated amount for part-time workers), although they can receive additional holiday under their employment contracts. The legal entitlement to holiday is intended to provide people with a period of rest from work. As Lord Justice Mummery stated in the recent case of NHS Leeds v Larner, the purpose of paid annual leave “is to enable a worker to enjoy rest, relaxation and leisure: it is for the protection of health and safety” and this is why pay in lieu of statutory holiday is prohibited except where a worker’s employment is terminated.

The impact of employees working on holiday

While it is very easy with today’s technology to work on holiday, if workers are not able to switch off and relax then they are less likely to return to work feeling re-energised and motivated, and productivity is therefore likely to suffer. There is also a risk that staff who work while on holiday will not get the health benefits of a complete break and will, as a result, go on to develop stress-related ill health. Working on holiday can also interfere with precious family time and can therefore have a detrimental impact on relationships and potentially cause further stress. Stress is the main cause of long-term sickness absence in the UK and can affect the productivity and profitability of a business.

That said, for some, working on holiday is less stressful than the pressures of getting things done before going away or returning to a mountain of work afterwards. In addition, for executives and small companies, working on holiday may be essential for the smooth running of their business.

Legal risks to the employer

It is not possible for employees to contract out of their statutory holiday entitlement. Therefore, there is a risk, although as yet untested, that if workers are required or pressurised to work while on holiday they could bring a claim that their employer refused to permit them to take their statutory holiday entitlement in breach of the Working Time Regulations. However, if workers choose to work while on holiday, although they are not required to do so by their employer, then they will not be able to bring such a claim.

There is also a risk that employees who work on holiday may develop stress. Further, if a culture of employees working while on holiday develops it is likely to set a dangerous precedent that employees are “on call” at all times and thereby significantly increase the likelihood of the workforce being affected by work-related stress.

Under health and safety legislation there is a general duty on employers to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the welfare of all their employees at work. Employers also have a duty to undertake risk assessments and manage activities to reduce the incidence of stress at work. Breach of health and safety legislation could result in criminal sanctions, although this is unlikely in the context of employees working while on holiday.

However, employers are also under a common law duty to take reasonable care for the health and safety of employees in the workplace. Therefore, employees suffering from work-related stress could bring personal injury claims against their employer. In addition, anxiety, stress and depression having a substantial and long-term adverse effect on an employee’s day-to-day activities may amount to a disability under the Equality Act 2010. In such circumstances, employers are exposed to possible claims for failure to make reasonable adjustments.

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 24 May 2016, 19:16

The Way Forward Agreement:
Annual Leave:

Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave.

ddtc · Post by **ddtc** » 24 May 2016, 19:35

Our rep just turns a blind eye to it and does nothing. The people who do come in on annual just don't care. Its annoying personally as I am a part timer on a 25hr contract and it usually is a full timer that does this, so they get a full time wage while being on annual leave.

Should the area rep be informed of this?

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 24 May 2016, 19:51

Surely people should be allowed to work some of their holiday if they want to. I often do, but then I am on a 20 hour contract so it's hard to enjoy a holiday with the holiday pay I get. If I were on a full time contract then I doubt I'd even entertain the idea lol

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 24 May 2016, 20:14

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
ddtc wrote:
What is the unions stance on this?

.
'Way Forward' agreement under the section 'Taking Leave' it says -

"Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave. This means that employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance"

The intent of that seems to suggest you shouldn't be attending your own office because you might take away overtime from somebody else, but what about attending a different function/office?

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 25 May 2016, 07:17

Worth also pointing out you are only on annual leave for 5 days if off for a week, the other 2 days are days off and not annual leave, so working them would not be against any agreement or counted for the WTD

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 25 May 2016, 11:59

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
ddtc wrote:
What is the unions stance on this?

.
'Way Forward' agreement under the section 'Taking Leave' it says -

"Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave. This means that employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance"

it happens regularly in our office. its the DOM who asks them in!! so the 'Way Forward' agreement means 'diddley' at ours. (union knows)

Post by **happymackem** » 25 May 2016, 15:10

Chewster wrote:Surely people should be allowed to work some of their holiday if they want to. I often do, but then I am on a 20 hour contract so it's hard to enjoy a holiday with the holiday pay I get. If I were on a full time contract then I doubt I'd even entertain the idea lol

And you wonder why the job is buggad get a grip you clown

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 25 May 2016, 15:19

ddtc wrote:Our rep just turns a blind eye to it and does nothing. The people who do come in on annual just don't care. Its annoying personally as I am a part timer on a 25hr contract and it usually is a full timer that does this, so they get a full time wage while being on annual leave.

Should the area rep be informed of this?

The rep can't do anything they have no policing powers. The can advise managers its against agreements and they can advise Area Reps, but to be honest nothings going to change until members start voicing their opinions,

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 25 May 2016, 15:24

norm wrote:
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
ddtc wrote:
What is the unions stance on this?

.
'Way Forward' agreement under the section 'Taking Leave' it says -

"Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave. This means that employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance"
The intent of that seems to suggest you shouldn't be attending your own office because you might take away overtime from somebody else, but what about attending a different function/office?

It certainly is open to interpretation. But as every office comes under the agreement, could be said that it applies in every office irrespective of whether its your home office or not. Don't forget this was an agreement written before it became normal to work in different offices.

drew78 · Post by **drew78** » 25 May 2016, 16:06

Wanted some advice on this subject please. A mate in my office was in a weeks leave last week and was asked by line manager if could work Wednesday and Thursday. He worked the Wednesday fine and manager put down 8 hours OT. Next day lad came in at 7 prepping, then at 9:30 the lino goes over and says the DOM has said you can only have one day paid as OT while on leave, any other days would mean being given a days leave back. When the lad told him to stick the delivery in that case and he would go home, the lino said he will just try putting through the 8 hours OT. The lad did the delivery but has now been told he will most likely only get 1 day as OT. He won't know for sure until he gets payslip tomorrow but was is the policy here as the agreement above says no OT should be worked at all while on leave but clearly it is happening?

Any help and advice much appreciated

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 25 May 2016, 16:17

You can't have a policy for something that goes against an agreement.

However, the manager has basically followed ZX135s line, in that working 1 day during annual leave is probably okay as you are only paid for 5 (in a normal attendance), and then the 2nd day he has made it a normal working day, as he gets the days leave back at another time.

If your mate doesn't agree with this, especially as he was told something different by management, then he should consider a grievance against the manager, but I would get an Area Rep involved as it could be a complicated case due to the fact its outside the agreement. However, as a one off he may get a result because of what the manager informed him after he elected to take his leave then, rather than later, and the manager said he would look into getting him overtime.

As I say its complicated and probably needs an area rep and a bit of patience.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 25 May 2016, 22:20

happymackem wrote:
Chewster wrote:Surely people should be allowed to work some of their holiday if they want to. I often do, but then I am on a 20 hour contract so it's hard to enjoy a holiday with the holiday pay I get. If I were on a full time contract then I doubt I'd even entertain the idea lol
And you wonder why the job is buggad get a grip you clown

It's "buggad" because there are hard working individuals willing to do extra work that needs done and in turn save their workmates from a day of lapsing?