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LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 08:29

SpacePhoenix wrote:
Sugar wrote:
Thailand1 wrote:Please can someone explain 2 bundle trial....Thanks


You have one bundle made up of mail that you sorted into your frame and a second bundle that came into the office later which is walk sorted but you didn't prep into the frame. You then place those 2 bundles back to back whilst you're out on delivery and flick between front and back for the mail to each delivery point.


What about the 3rd bundle with your manual in?


Manual mail will have been thrown into your frame as per normal with the first lot of sequenced once sorting's finished. Any loose that may come in after that is anyone's guess. Generally I never got more than half a dozen loose when the second lot of mail came in so it wouldn't have been much of an issue to feed that in out on delivery.

chocolatesaltyballs wrote:How is a 2 bundle method ever going to work when many if not most deliveries will have streets that are bundled back to back, i.e. 2,4,6,8 etc on side and 1,3,5,7 etc the other side of the bundle. How can you then have an additional walk sorted bundle alongside that. Not thought through at all but then that's no big surprise.


Your frames will be redone so everything runs in a straight sequence.

clashcityrocker wrote:Many? Most?
In 20+ years and having worked in 7 delivery offices I have never seen a duty tied up like that.


That's how I was taught 20 years ago. On certain streets you pulled the odds out then the evens and put them back to back so you could crisscross the street/road.

Woody Guthrie wrote:How could you use a trolley with the back to back method? That nonsense was supposed to be planned out of duties 10 years ago.
Dark ages stuff.


Get to the house, let go of the trolley handle, walk down the garden path then check your bundle(s) for that delivery point and then the next. Repeat the process for the next 600+ delivery points. Might stop those that walk and sort and cut down on a few slips and trips on delivery because people aren't watching what they are doing.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 12:42

Sugar wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:How could you use a trolley with the back to back method? That nonsense was supposed to be planned out of duties 10 years ago.
Dark ages stuff.


Get to the house, let go of the trolley handle, walk down the garden path then check your bundle(s) for that delivery point and then the next. Repeat the process for the next 600+ delivery points. Might stop those that walk and sort and cut down on a few slips and trips on delivery because people aren't watching what they are doing.


I don't know if you're being deliberately facetious or have just missed the point but how do you safely cross cross a road a dozen or more times dodging traffic and parked cars with a trolley in tow?

That's absolutely crazy.

Of course the truth is in most cases they aren't using a trolley and in most cases the frame isn't set up for back to back, we're just talking about guys doing their own thing to score a little time.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 13:12

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Sugar wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:How could you use a trolley with the back to back method? That nonsense was supposed to be planned out of duties 10 years ago.
Dark ages stuff.


Get to the house, let go of the trolley handle, walk down the garden path then check your bundle(s) for that delivery point and then the next. Repeat the process for the next 600+ delivery points. Might stop those that walk and sort and cut down on a few slips and trips on delivery because people aren't watching what they are doing.


I don't know if you're being deliberately facetious or have just missed the point but how do you safely cross cross a road a dozen or more times dodging traffic and parked cars with a trolley in tow?

That's absolutely crazy.

Of course the truth is in most cases they aren't using a trolley and in most cases the frame isn't set up for back to back, we're just talking about guys doing their own thing to score a little time.


Yes deliberately playful BUT as we both know in this company people are generally against any and all change or need everything explaining in microscopic detail.

To answer your other point we were told when van share came in that walks were to be designed to limit crisscrossing roads etc as this just increased dead walking and wasted time. I've used LWT's and HCT's and yes parked cars are a pain in the rear but managers aren't going to see that as anything other than a part of the job, it'll be down to the OPG to show otherwise and it is a H&S or time issue.

Unfortunately people trying to score a little time is probably part of the driving force behind rm's agenda. You're all lazy, full of Spanish practises and won't let them bring in clocking in machines...

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 16:54

"people are generally against any and all change"

There's change and then royalmails change,ive lost count how many changes over the last ten years its not normal,ive worked for lots of corporations theyve never had as many turnarounds as RM.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 17:27

richietns wrote:"people are generally against any and all change"

There's change and then royalmails change,ive lost count how many changes over the last ten years its not normal,ive worked for lots of corporations theyve never had as many turnarounds as RM.


Agreed but to be honest it's been 20 years of constant and apparently directionless change including the ridiculous "Consignia" episode.

All the time the fault of the staff and unions of course with no accountability at all for the ridiculous dead ends the business has gone down.

My personal view is the real resistance to change comes from management who are stuck in a fire fighting command and control system that would be more at home in the mid 70s.

Every change the business has agreed with the union and attempted to implement has run aground on the rocks of inept local management interpretation and application.

Instead of changing their philosophy they slam the square peg into the round hole of their own prejudiced view of how a unit should be managed.

They know best because... they've been doing such a wonderful job up to now right... right?

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 17:46

Don't know about the rest of you but my Delivery is "Tweaked" on a daily basis, to save me time & effort (and in the long run I suppose also save RM paying even more Pressure OT) :hmmmm I'm no Runner and don't carve the Duty up. It's simply common sense that if I've got a LARGE Parcel I'll stop outside that address and work from there, That's for my own benefit. :thumbup

ANYTHING that came in late that had been "Pre-Prepped" would totally screw me up. :thumbdown TBH it may sound sad but as I'm collecting Tracked & Large Parcels I'm already thinking, "We'll I'll have to drive round to that close that's tucked away instead of walking there" A bit like Pre-Covid when you collected your Specials and realised they were all at the end of your duty and it's be a good idea to do that bit first! :crazy:

As the number of Parcels increases I find myself using the van like a BIG HCT and simply driving it down the road dropping of BIG Parcels and doing a little Loop, of the nearby houses, and then Repeating the process with the next BIG Parcel. Works well for me but I don't know what impact the LAT hubs will have? :cuppa

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 19:16

Woody Guthrie wrote:
richietns wrote:"people are generally against any and all change"

There's change and then royalmails change,ive lost count how many changes over the last ten years its not normal,ive worked for lots of corporations theyve never had as many turnarounds as RM.


Agreed but to be honest it's been 20 years of constant and apparently directionless change including the ridiculous "Consignia" episode.

All the time the fault of the staff and unions of course with no accountability at all for the ridiculous dead ends the business has gone down.

My personal view is the real resistance to change comes from management who are stuck in a fire fighting command and control system that would be more at home in the mid 70s.

Every change the business has agreed with the union and attempted to implement has run aground on the rocks of inept local management interpretation and application.

Instead of changing their philosophy they slam the square peg into the round hole of their own prejudiced view of how a unit should be managed.

They know best because... they've been doing such a wonderful job up to now right... right?

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

25 Sep 2020, 19:28

To implement change you have to start with Area / Divisional Directors , some of who have worked there way up through the Grades from Postman / Woman
Trained by Staff already in the Grade who were Trained by Staff already in the Grade ,
If you want to get on , dont rock the boat
Change will have to Filter down from above to Delivery Office Managers

LTB 459/20 – JOINT STATEMENT – PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

27 Sep 2020, 21:36

worktotime wrote:how long are the CWU going to allow this company to try string this f****r out , because our office rep is getting s**t everyday from members about the way managers are treating them , workload , lapsing , short staffed and not due to covid , and there will be a lot pulling the CWU and there subs , :evil/mad

Same in our office at the speed there going they won't have any members left.

LTB 459/20 – JOINT STATEMENT – PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

27 Sep 2020, 21:52

guardianangel wrote:
worktotime wrote:how long are the CWU going to allow this company to try string this f****r out , because our office rep is getting s**t everyday from members about the way managers are treating them , workload , lapsing , short staffed and not due to covid , and there will be a lot pulling the CWU and there subs , :evil/mad

Same in our office at the speed there going they won't have any members left.

Cant believe myself im still paying my weekly subs. think it will end very shortly sick of agency staff getting more hours than a opg.

LTB 459/20 – JOINT STATEMENT – PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

27 Sep 2020, 22:26

aiden01 wrote:
guardianangel wrote:
worktotime wrote:how long are the CWU going to allow this company to try string this f****r out , because our office rep is getting s**t everyday from members about the way managers are treating them , workload , lapsing , short staffed and not due to covid , and there will be a lot pulling the CWU and there subs , :evil/mad

Same in our office at the speed there going they won't have any members left.

Cant believe myself im still paying my weekly subs. think it will end very shortly sick of agency staff getting more hours than a opg.

You could always resign and become an agency worker yourself.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

27 Sep 2020, 23:21

Once this pay deal is done they should start the next one to get it sorted in time,I think the union and royal mail should be done for willful delay

LTB 459/20 – JOINT STATEMENT – PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

28 Sep 2020, 10:04

k979aaa wrote:
aiden01 wrote:
guardianangel wrote:
worktotime wrote:how long are the CWU going to allow this company to try string this f****r out , because our office rep is getting s**t everyday from members about the way managers are treating them , workload , lapsing , short staffed and not due to covid , and there will be a lot pulling the CWU and there subs , :evil/mad

Same in our office at the speed there going they won't have any members left.

Cant believe myself im still paying my weekly subs. think it will end very shortly sick of agency staff getting more hours than a opg.

You could always resign and become an agency worker yourself.

Kind of reply i was expecting from you :roll:

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

29 Sep 2020, 09:47

I wonder how long it has been now since Royal Mail Ist started bandying about the figure of £1,000,000 a day that they are purported to be losing. By my reckoning it must be 3 months at least. I haven't seen any significant changes in all that time which would lead to turning that around. In fact the longer these talks go on without any sort of agreement the more money (if they are to be believed) they must be losing. Why as a business would you allow this to happen? Give us a decent pay rise and get on with making the changes we all know need to be made. I know it's not as simplistic as that but it would be a good place to start.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

29 Sep 2020, 12:30

RICARD020191962 wrote:I wonder how long it has been now since Royal Mail Ist started bandying about the figure of £1,000,000 a day that they are purported to be losing. By my reckoning it must be 3 months at least. I haven't seen any significant changes in all that time which would lead to turning that around. In fact the longer these talks go on without any sort of agreement the more money (if they are to be believed) they must be losing. Why as a business would you allow this to happen? Give us a decent pay rise and get on with making the changes we all know need to be made. I know it's not as simplistic as that but it would be a good place to start.


I’m not holding my breath for any sort of pay rise unfortunately. Royal Mail hold all the cards over the union and both sides know it. Wouldn’t be surprised if Royal Mail just ditch the talks with the union fairly soon and start doing the changes they want via executive action. What would the union really be able to do about it? Another ballot during Covid wouldn’t look good and the way they cocked up the last 2 anyway it’s doubtful many of the members would back them a 3rd time.
To sum up, I think we’re screwed.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

29 Sep 2020, 13:02

I also worry they wouldn't get the backing required if they ballot again.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

29 Sep 2020, 13:05

Surely there will be some sort of pay rise coming after all these many months of negotiations (is it just me finds it hard to imagine how you can possibly take so long?).

We as a workforce need some sort of hope/positivity after whats been a very long and difficult year. Even a 2% pay rise back dated to April would give us all a little spring in our step and Royal Mail must realise that a down trodden and disheartened work force is no good for anyone.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

29 Sep 2020, 21:09

mjd24 wrote:Surely there will be some sort of pay rise coming after all these many months of negotiations (is it just me finds it hard to imagine how you can possibly take so long?).

We as a workforce need some sort of hope/positivity after whats been a very long and difficult year. Even a 2% pay rise back dated to April would give us all a little spring in our step and Royal Mail must realise that a down trodden and disheartened work force is no good for anyone.


Given the CWU didn't put the offer the business made at the beginning of all this to the members I can't see that being any time soon.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

01 Oct 2020, 01:37

mjd24 wrote: Royal Mail must realise that a down trodden and disheartened work force is no good for anyone.

I would have thought that is exactly what RM management want..... a subservient, downtrodden, brow beaten workforce who are grateful to receive whatever pittance management deem is commensurate with the role of a serf ........ The attitude will be (and with a proportion of manager always has been) “if you don’t like it..... leave. There are plenty out there who would jump at the chance to do your job”.

LTB 459/20 - JOINT STATEMENT - PAY AND SHORTER WORKING WEEK

01 Oct 2020, 04:40

The problem with demotivating your workforce is that they're not very likely to do much beyond just enough to keep their jobs so the standard becomes slightly faster than the slowest guy.

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