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5:30pm today 18/09/20

20 Sep 2020, 20:15

shaun2urz wrote:That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.


Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

20 Sep 2020, 20:50

Even waring a mask your not supposed to be less than a meter apart so two in a van is dead in the water if the HSE or more the case a council official/COVID Marshall as Boris the COVID-19 brain damaged head. So I would not worry about this one bit there is a virus knocking about this year bit like a bad flu season like 1968 1957 or 1918 at very worst kind of thing which is bad.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

21 Sep 2020, 21:04

Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.


Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.


No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

21 Sep 2020, 21:54

shaun2urz wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.


Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.


No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.


It's the difference between criminal law and civil law.
You go to jail for an illegal act under criminal law, you get sued for an unlawful act under civil law.

Disregarding government rules can get you jailed, disregarding government guidelines can cost your business a great deal of money which is why your assertion that there is a BIG difference between rules and guidelines doesn't hold water from a business point of view.

If you put your staff at risk you risk the legal consequences, if you do so by wilfully ignoring government guidelines you double down on that risk.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

22 Sep 2020, 01:17

Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.


Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.


No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.


It's the difference between criminal law and civil law.
You go to jail for an illegal act under criminal law, you get sued for an unlawful act under civil law.

Disregarding government rules can get you jailed, disregarding government guidelines can cost your business a great deal of money which is why your assertion that there is a BIG difference between rules and guidelines doesn't hold water from a business point of view.

If you put your staff at risk you risk the legal consequences, if you do so by wilfully ignoring government guidelines you double down on that risk.


So are you saying the bin companies are acting illegally? Or are they just 'doubling down on that risk'?

5:30pm today 18/09/20

22 Sep 2020, 16:22

shaun2urz wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
shaun2urz wrote:That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.


Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.


No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.


It's the difference between criminal law and civil law.
You go to jail for an illegal act under criminal law, you get sued for an unlawful act under civil law.

Disregarding government rules can get you jailed, disregarding government guidelines can cost your business a great deal of money which is why your assertion that there is a BIG difference between rules and guidelines doesn't hold water from a business point of view.

If you put your staff at risk you risk the legal consequences, if you do so by wilfully ignoring government guidelines you double down on that risk.


So are you saying the bin companies are acting illegally? Or are they just 'doubling down on that risk'?


This is the quote from the .gov website regarding working from vehicles:

3.3 Social distancing in vehicles
Objective: To maintain social distancing wherever possible between individuals when in vehicles:

avoid multiple occupancy vehicles where safe to do so
vehicles should not be shared if possible
if it is not possible to maintain social distancing guidelines inside vehicles (2m, or 1m with risk mitigation where 2m is not viable), consider additional safety measures


So regarding 'the bins' it would not be safe for the operator or the public for a refuse lorry to be operated by a single driver/operator.
Neither would it be safe/practical for the second and third operator to follow in their private cars.
Refuse lorry cabs seem to me to be pretty bigger than our vans, they seem to drive with their windows down all the time,
in our area the third operator sits on a seat behind the two in the front of the cab and I don't know what additional measures they are taking.
Perhaps you've seen operators sat in the cab not taking additional measures ie wearing masks - perhaps they've been directed to but they've made
a personal decision not to - that's up to them.

We CAN operate iaw the guidance by avoiding multi occupancy vehicles. Whether individual councils or their contracted
refuse collection contractors operate within the law/regulations/guidance and what the consequences are for them if they did not
is a matter for them.

RM corporate have decided that 'multi occupancy of vehicles' can be avoided, that way if someone attempts to drag them
in front of a judge because somebody caught covid and had made a personal decision to work as a van share (whether they
caught covid as a result of that van share or not) the highly paid RM lawyers can say 'Do one - our working practices stated no van sharing - end of'.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

22 Sep 2020, 17:21

So another six months at least of this so what the cwu going 2 do?.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

22 Sep 2020, 17:49

Rommagic wrote:So another six months at least of this so what the cwu going 2 do?.


Probably have us van sharing by next week. I’m only half joking.

5:30pm today 18/09/20

22 Sep 2020, 18:57

Christmas s going to be.......interesting. :Very Happy

5:30pm today 18/09/20

29 Sep 2020, 21:21

Rommagic wrote:
koolishy67 wrote:
spen wrote:Van sharing is back as long as you wear masks

Hope so fed up with this walker finishing ealry


The driver drives past the walker who has a 30 min journey back.


My mates in a van. The bloke he usually shares with has a 45 minute walk. Each way. :shock:

5:30pm today 18/09/20

30 Sep 2020, 16:39

iv,e now got an hour and 20mins walk every day. suits me, i am quite happy because i am booking over 6 hours a week in overtime. more if i am asked in on my day off.

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