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03 Mar 2020, 19:24

Don't believe what?

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03 Mar 2020, 19:25

clashcityrocker wrote:
daveyeff wrote:that being the case then why didn't they stop the subs before the last few strikes we had which ended up costing them millions. instead of taking us to court and risk losing, just stop the subs. destroy the union and they wouldn't need to pay us nearly 12 quid an hour. no union would mean they could run the company as they see fit. paying us the same as Hermes, or DHL.

Because they need the union as much as the union needs them.
Why do you think RM pays out millions for full time release reps?

Hermes makes 30 million profit.

and if there was no union it wouldn't need to pay out millions to full time release reps.

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03 Mar 2020, 19:27

clashcityrocker wrote:Don't believe what?

I don't believe they could stop the subs or they would have done it, saving them millions in lost revenue. if they coul rid themselves of the union they would do it.

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03 Mar 2020, 19:37

Ask your union rep then.
Check off they call it don't they? They have threatened to do it before I believe.

You cannot run a business the size of RM, especially considering its history, without the involvement of a trade union.
I say involvement but sometimes I think connivance.
Unfortunately for us, the sabre rattling has reached epic proportions with both the main actors involved desperate to prove they have the biggest willy.

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03 Mar 2020, 19:44

It's called 'check off' davey.
Royal Mail deducts union subs directly from your wages and then pays it directly to the union.
Apparently this facility cost the union over £300,000 a year.
RMT used to use check off until the employer removed it, the union initially lost half its members overnight until they could set up a direct debit system.

Royal Mail also pays the wages of full-time release reps and then recovers the money through something called Central Billing. This facility also costs the union.

As Clash points out it is a symbiotic financial arrangement which if removed would throw the union into financial turmoil. A much easier way to bring the union to its knees than trying to fight industrial action.

So the question you have to ask yourself is if Rico is so intent on destroying the union why doesn't he do it with the press of a couple of buttons?

The truth is the business needs the union to manage the planned changes and to encourage the staff to swallow the bitter pill when the dust settles. All the rest is just hot air and posturing from both sides.

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03 Mar 2020, 20:12

Well I've asked him and he doesn't think so either. If I can get it answered on tonight's q and a I will cos I believe if they could do that then they must definitely would. Why would they lose millions in strikes when they could disrupt us good style but attacking the subs

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03 Mar 2020, 20:14

There's been plenty of posturing and hot air on this thread,at times going way off topic. Who would have thought that Royal Mail could quite easily cancel our Union subs? Can they also stop the deductions for tax and national insurance contributions as well, cause I'm sure I'm paying far too much tax :dance

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03 Mar 2020, 20:28

postslippete wrote:There's been plenty of posturing and hot air on this thread,at times going way off topic. Who would have thought that Royal Mail could quite easily cancel our Union subs? Can they also stop the deductions for tax and national insurance contributions as well, cause I'm sure I'm paying far too much tax :dance


Straight from the government website.
https://www.gov.uk/working-with-trade-u ... scriptions

Union subscriptions
Some trade union members pay their union subscriptions directly out of their wages.

The employer then gives these payments to the union.

This is often called the ‘check-off’.

It’s up to you if you want to run the check-off. A union can’t force you to run the check-off unless you’ve agreed to it in your workers’ employment contracts.

Authorising the check-off
A worker must give you written permission to take their union subscriptions from their wages.

This must be signed and dated. Their permission starts from this date and continues until they say otherwise.

If you take the check-off without proper permission you could be taken to an employment tribunal.

You can pre-print consent forms as long as the worker signs and dates the form themselves. Unions are also allowed to get the written consent from the worker then forward it to you.

Stopping the check-off
You must stop taking check-off payments if your employee asks you to.

They must give you written notice to stop the check-off and you must be given reasonable time to stop it.

You can stop running the check-off at any time. If it’s in your workers’ employment contracts, you may have to give them notice.

The role of the union in the check-off
The union doesn’t have to help run the check-off. However, you can involve it if you want to. You could, for example, ask the union to help you get initial consent from its members.

You could also charge the union for the work involved in administering the check off.

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03 Mar 2020, 22:00

With the support and backing of it's members in recent times I would think that cancelling the Union subs would be a good way to fuel the fire in our contempt towards management.

If they did that, I would happily and quickly sign a direct debit for the CWU to take the money from my account, being all the more pleased that RM weren't getting a cut of it.

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04 Mar 2020, 16:29

Has anyone else noticed that on the ballot paper there is a code on the top left corner. this code is duplicated on the front address sheet next to your name. The ballot paper states that if you cut off the code it will be null and void. I thought votes were meant to be secret :hmmmm

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04 Mar 2020, 16:37

kingdazzler wrote:Has anyone else noticed that on the ballot paper there is a code on the top left corner. this code is duplicated on the front address sheet next to your name. The ballot paper states that if you cut off the code it will be null and void. I thought votes were meant to be secret :hmmmm


Its still secret they have to know its a legit vote same as in any election.

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05 Mar 2020, 19:31

Hitcher wrote:Nearly all of our office refused to go to the speech; guy was furious. :Very Happy


Never considered that... Well done ... Certainly made a Statement of Intent. :Applause A few of us used to get up and walk out when they used to put on the RMTV Bullshit though. :cuppa

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05 Mar 2020, 20:26

Dorset Plodder wrote:
Hitcher wrote:Nearly all of our office refused to go to the speech; guy was furious. :Very Happy


Never considered that... Well done ... Certainly made a Statement of Intent. :Applause A few of us used to get up and walk out when they used to put on the RMTV Bullshit though. :cuppa


Thing is, in a WTLL session they're paying you to sit there and listen. Of course we don't want to sit and listen to it, but if you'd rather replace that with real work then go for it...
I think walking out on these 'Ambassadors' is not a good move. It's disrespectful and it will get back to higher management. It would be much better to come up with constructive and clever questions to flummox them.
Yes I know they're being direspectful towards us, but in these instances I think it's better to be the 'bigger man' so to speak.

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06 Mar 2020, 19:14

ssdd wrote:
Thing is, in a WTLL session they're paying you to sit there and listen. Of course we don't want to sit and listen to it, but if you'd rather replace that with real work then go for it...
I think walking out on these 'Ambassadors' is not a good move. It's disrespectful and it will get back to higher management. It would be much better to come up with constructive and clever questions to flummox them.
Yes I know they're being direspectful towards us, but in these instances I think it's better to be the 'bigger man' so to speak.


I agree WTLL Is a chance to sit down and have a cuppa. :thumbup We did listen to the Ambassador's BS, and although we weren't expecting him we did manage to ask a lot of awkward questions. Which he was unable to effectively answer :d'oh!

I know the DOM is budgetted for WTLL EVERY Tuesday .... All to often he will simply say "Nothing for WTLL today but if you just listen in while your sorting .....". This suits the "Runners" as they can get out the door, and it suits the DOM because he saves Time/Money .... (you work out 40 mins per Postie in your DO and that's what he "Saves" everytime he misses a WTLL session). :no no

IMO you should have a WTLL session every week, it's often a good opportunity to clear the air and discuss problems within the DO, even without Management BS VIdeos. Our Part Timers are also not included (because they've come in later and are still throwing off) which I disagree with. They often don't know what's happeneing, and TBH it seems a lot of the Big Office Decisions are made by the FTers ... with their own Agendas. :cuppa
Last edited by Dorset Plodder on 07 Mar 2020, 11:44, edited 1 time in total.

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06 Mar 2020, 19:36

The National agreement on WTLL is that 30 minutes is allocated each week to communicating issues and news that help frontline colleagues to understand their role.

This assists us to do things correctly, facilitates our compliance to regulations and improves our service to customers. WTLLs are part of our core Ops Standards and should be jointly delivered where possible and necessary every week on an
agreed day and time, to ensure all colleagues, full time and part time, have the opportunity to be involved.



A toolkit for managers has been developed providing guidelines and tips for effective communication of WTLLs. This is available on the intranet for the use of all managers and a copy will be made available for local CWU representatives. The toolkit also contains guidelines on the expectations for the inclusion of
part-time colleagues.

The toolkit also outlines a collaborative process to follow in terms of agreeing content for the session
and the most appropriate person to deliver a particular message. This is as follows:

• A discussion at weekly resourcing meetings in terms of when the WTLL Session will be delivered

• Following the issue of the national WTLL brief on a Friday, a discussion is held with the Local Rep at that point in order to discuss who will deliver which part, together with any local issues that warrant inclusion

• Manager and Local Rep have a discussion after the WTLL to look at any action points

• Local CWU Rep can also host the session – either jointly or independently, provided that the content is agreed as above

Why WTLLs are important
We want to make sure these sessions happen each week for every full time and part time colleague and to make them as effective and engaging as possible. The 30 minutes is a significant investment each week and it’s critical that we use this time meaningfully. We encourage everyone to review how WTLLs run in your office and make sure we are making the most of this opportunity for colleagues to talk,
together.

This relaunch of the WTLL will take place in February 2019 and will in the first instance be communicated to senior operational managers and CWU Divisional Representatives, prior to being
widely rolled out and communicated through our respective channels. Following this, Delivery Office Managers and Local CWU Representatives will meet and discuss this new approach, in order to familiarise themselves with what is to be expected moving forward, and to be in a position to deliver WTLL sessions in a more joined-up and positive way.Any issues or queries on this matter should be directed to the relative national parties.

Signed

Mark Baulch CWU Assistant Secretary
Anton Harding RMG National Delivery Director

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06 Mar 2020, 19:41

When this clocking in and out comes in which will 'pay us the correct overtime we are due'....

Does this now mean that we are going to have to take our breaks while at work. Not sure if all depots do the same, but we take part of our break at the end of the day, ie. we go home early.....though not everyone, a small amount will take this break within their working day.

When we claim overtime, if we have not had our break, we add this to the time we have gone over.

So how does this work with this new clock in clock out system.....I assume it won't work, unless the clock out machine asks you if you did or did not take your break.

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06 Mar 2020, 19:49

So how does this work


If it costs RM money it won't.
If it saves RM money it will.
Next question....

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06 Mar 2020, 20:07

Woody Guthrie wrote:The National agreement on WTLL is that 30 minutes is allocated each week to communicating issues and news that help frontline colleagues to understand their role.


Thanks for that Woody, Very Informative. :thumbup So it is feasible for the Unit Rep to discuss such things as Prepping Households, Starting before your "Official" Start Times & Claiming the Correct Overtime .... During WTLL sessions? :hmmmm

At present we seem to be under the impression that NO CWU business should be carried out in the DO during work time ( it's probably just a case of us having an easy going Rep, that isn't very Pro-Active). :hmmmm WTLL sessions would be an ideal opportunity to cover such subjects, and get the message across to the workforce... Including Part Timers! :cuppa

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06 Mar 2020, 20:41

Ours is every Tuesday at 8.10.. part timers don't start till 8.50. And have missed it. They aren't bothered though

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06 Mar 2020, 21:03

daveyeff wrote:Ours is every Tuesday at 8.10.. part timers don't start till 8.50. And have missed it. They aren't bothered though


Short Term thinking Daveyeff. They should be bothered because 1) They get paid for attending it. 2) Decisions are often made which effect them. :hmmmm

Far too often it seems decisions are made by a few outspoken Old & Bold (often with hidden agendas), and Part Timers suffer. :no no If I was one of those Part Timers I'd want to know what's going on in those WTLL sessions. :cuppa

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