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29 Feb 2020, 06:01

If foreign labour, or immigrants in general, are so bad for the economy, why do they contribute more to this country, financially via taxation (even ignoring their other non-monetary benefits) than your average indigenous citizen of this country?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html

Not only do they contribute more, they take less out than they put in. Sounds like we cant afford to lose them tbh. :hmmmm

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29 Feb 2020, 06:28

LouBarlow wrote:If foreign labour, or immigrants in general, are so bad for the economy, why do they contribute more to this country, financially via taxation (even ignoring their other non-monetary benefits) than your average indigenous citizen of this country?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html

Not only do they contribute more, they take less out than they put in. Sounds like we cant afford to lose them tbh. :hmmmm

Some Take more than they earn Rico for example.

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29 Feb 2020, 10:34

LouBarlow wrote:If foreign labour, or immigrants in general, are so bad for the economy, why do they contribute more to this country, financially via taxation (even ignoring their other non-monetary benefits) than your average indigenous citizen of this country?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html

Not only do they contribute more, they take less out than they put in. Sounds like we cant afford to lose them tbh. :hmmmm


If the issue of immigration was as simplistic as "benefit vs cost" then the whole of the EU (especially the poorer Eastern and Southern countries) would be clamouring to receive their share of the economic migrants who continue to attempt to reach the EU.
As with most stats they can be slanted to show whatever the presenter wishes.
Each immigrant child costs the taxpayer between £25000 to £35000 in schooling per year, so there must be some really high earners for their tax contributions to even be a significant percentage of that figure. Add in some GP/hospital visits, benefits of any sort and the claim that they "take out more than they put in" sounds decidedly dodgy.

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29 Feb 2020, 15:24

Each immigrant child costs the taxpayer between £25000 to £35000 in schooling per year, so there must be some really high earners for their tax contributions to even be a significant percentage of that figure. Add in some GP/hospital visits, benefits of any sort and the claim that they "take out more than they put in" sounds decidedly dodgy.


1. Where did you get the figure of £25,000-£35,000?
That's complete nonsense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46180290

The amount spent on each primary school child in England in 2018-19 was £5,000, compared with £6,200 for secondary school children.


2. Do 'non-immigrant' children go to school and visit the GP for free? Do they never claim benefits? Or does that not count because they're 'English'?

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29 Feb 2020, 17:50

Correct, and that'll teach me not to skim read.
Your second point is vacuous though. The original point wasn't about "who costs the most" but the claim "they put in more than they take out".

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29 Feb 2020, 18:10

Tman wrote:Correct, and that'll teach me not to skim read.
Your second point is vacuous though. The original point wasn't about "who costs the most" but the claim "they put in more than they take out".


It's not vacuous it's mathematical sense. It's a fixed cost (a constant) that comes with living in this country and has nothing to do with whether the subject is an immigrant or not therefore using it in any kind of calculation is pointless.

Using it makes almost every single basic tax payer in the country a net burden on the public finances rendering the whole debate meaningless.

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29 Feb 2020, 18:32

Effort in the whole business 120,000 postal workers 100% Rico Back and his board and his ambassadors = 0% This why the share price is at an all time low the leadership is is lacking in effort and engaging the workforce for it is us all who do the work not some prat from Hamburg, All he needed to do was work with the union for they represent us all and not abrogate the last agreement of two years ago just to boost his ego. If Rico wants a war he will get it and it will be a war he cannot and must not win for all the workers of the world and our nation by a dictator from Germany!

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29 Feb 2020, 18:51

k979aaa wrote:Effort in the whole business 120,000 postal workers 100% Rico Back and his board and his ambassadors = 0% This why the share price is at an all time low the leadership is is lacking in effort and engaging the workforce for it is us all who do the work not some prat from Hamburg, All he needed to do was work with the union for they represent us all and not abrogate the last agreement of two years ago just to boost his ego. If Rico wants a war he will get it and it will be a war he cannot and must not win for all the workers of the world and our nation by a dictator from Germany!


Send in the Spitfires!

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29 Feb 2020, 19:19

k979aaa wrote:Effort in the whole business 120,000 postal workers 100% Rico Back and his board and his ambassadors = 0% This why the share price is at an all time low the leadership is is lacking in effort and engaging the workforce for it is us all who do the work not some prat from Hamburg, All he needed to do was work with the union for they represent us all and not abrogate the last agreement of two years ago just to boost his ego. If Rico wants a war he will get it and it will be a war he cannot and must not win for all the workers of the world and our nation by a dictator from Germany!


You're as bad as the union for your obsession about where the guy comes from.

Moya was Canadian.
Adam Crozier was Scottish.
Alan Leighton was English.
Can you see the connection?
No, neither can I.

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29 Feb 2020, 19:26

they all managed the job in the uk though.

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29 Feb 2020, 19:34

daveyeff wrote:they all managed the job in the uk though.


How do you know that?
How do you know that any of these people spent any longer in the Royal Mail boardroom than Rico Back.

All three of them had multiple fingers in multiple pies while running Royal Mail. If we're going to be taken seriously we need to criticise senior management on what they do and what they plan to do not where they were born and where they live.

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29 Feb 2020, 19:46

Tman wrote:Correct, and that'll teach me not to skim read.
Your second point is vacuous though. The original point wasn't about "who costs the most" but the claim "they put in more than they take out".


But they do, according with Oxford Economics, which carried out the assessment.

Taxes will have to rise if Brexit brings strict curbs on EU workers because they pay far more to the public purse than British-born residents, a study warns today.

Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.

And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.


All from the link Lou posted above: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html

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29 Feb 2020, 22:07

Woody Guthrie wrote:
k979aaa wrote:Effort in the whole business 120,000 postal workers 100% Rico Back and his board and his ambassadors = 0% This why the share price is at an all time low the leadership is is lacking in effort and engaging the workforce for it is us all who do the work not some prat from Hamburg, All he needed to do was work with the union for they represent us all and not abrogate the last agreement of two years ago just to boost his ego. If Rico wants a war he will get it and it will be a war he cannot and must not win for all the workers of the world and our nation by a dictator from Germany!


You're as bad as the union for your obsession about where the guy comes from.

Moya was Canadian.
Adam Crozier was Scottish.
Alan Leighton was English.
Can you see the connection?
No, neither can I.

I would have no problem with Rico Back had he abided with the agreement Canadian woman made two years ago as for the wee Scotsman who f****d the FA up and ITV and we have the biggest twat of all time an English man who insisted no bullying tolerated except by management so it is not racially motivated so your point is I am a racist or not and I don't need your validation of such the thing is it is better than using names or tags!

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01 Mar 2020, 00:00

so your point is I am a racist


My point is you're obsessed with where he comes from, that's obvious because most of your posts mention his nationality.

The motivation behind that is your business and responsibility to own.

If I did decide to call you names it wouldn't be racist, German is not a race in itself. I would be far more likely to call you bigoted, xenophobic and insular.

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01 Mar 2020, 01:20

Woody Guthrie wrote:
so your point is I am a racist


My point is you're obsessed with where he comes from, that's obvious because most of your posts mention his nationality.

The motivation behind that is your business and responsibility to own.

If I did decide to call you names it wouldn't be racist, German is not a race in itself. I would be far more likely to call you bigoted, xenophobic and insular.

I am neither of those but the fact is he is German he dictates from his home in Switzerland nice house it is as far as I can see across lake Geneva. But the crux of the matter is what he will do unto us all for his profit and shares which he buys up at increasing regularity as his profit of doom forecasters do as they are told and tell the markets of a false position to drive the shares down and hence his buying of said shares. let us get over his nationality the fact is he don't pay no tax over here but he is a German tax dodger who resides in Switzerland over looking lake Geneva and expects us all to pay his way!

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01 Mar 2020, 06:49

There's no point debating with some people, ignorance breeds intolerance and they'll happily lap up and regurgitate any ''official'' figures on the supposed economic benefits of unlimited unskilled mass immigration provided by our government... a government who are nothing more than the puppets of the banks and Corps that really run this country.

I'm sure that same government can also provide official figures ''proving'' the economic benefit and vital necessity of obscenely low corporation taxes and obscenely high executive pay levels... yet these people who are all in favour of unlimited unskilled mass immigration will choose to ignore or deride those particular statistics.
Last edited by wacko74 on 01 Mar 2020, 09:29, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Mar 2020, 07:07

The current dropping of the share price is down to the Corona virus. Just about all shares have been dropping every day for the last few days

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01 Mar 2020, 07:38

Posties

There will be loads of Posties that strike that sit in their vans at the ends of their rounds instead of going back to the depot to help clear up. Leftover post often ends up being delivered on overtime costing the company money when it could be done by those who finish early.

There will be loads of Posties that strike that don't cross out unmarked stamps. The amount of stamps I have to cross out while out on the round due to whoever sorted my round not doing so, is ridiculous.


Unorganised and unproductive managers

There are managers who know full well Postie rounds are not equal. Whilst one van share struggles and often has to leave parcels behind, another van share is finished early most days.

Managers will be of no help to Posties they send out blind. They will just leave you to work it out yourself. Why every walk does not have a map, where to park, where post boxes are, where obscure properties are, etc - I have no ruddy clue. Result - post gets mis-delivered, postie brings post back or postie stays out longer and claims more money, postie gets irritated and leaves - RM have to pay to train someone else.



All of this could easily be fixed and make a decent difference to RM profits.

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01 Mar 2020, 09:26

When the company insists on EVERY item of mail having the correct postage , then I might give a fig about uncancelled stamps.
Besides by the time the mail gets to me it should have been cancelled already , and it's not my problem if FSMs can't do it.

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01 Mar 2020, 10:18

How on earth did this thread become about race? My understanding of Terry's comments regarding Rico's nationality was to emphasise his distance both culturally and physically from the company and thus having no connection to a much loved national institution what so ever. Making it easier for him to callously rip it apart, take the profits, and f**k off.

Our fight it with the leadership, Not migrants. Lets focus on the things that concern us.
Last edited by Ren Hoëk on 01 Mar 2020, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.

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