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Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 16:58

daveyeff wrote:it wasn't a workplace ballot though.


If RM can show that representatives of the union encouraged members to open their ballot papers and vote in the workplace it was a workplace ballot.

It doesn't matter whether it was one office or a thousand, it doesn't matter if it would have materially affected the result, it doesn't matter if it's fair if they can show union participation in an unlawful ballot it's done.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 17:03

they'll have to show members being intimidated by to reps to open their ballot papers and vote yes. didn't happen.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 17:17

daveyeff wrote:they'll have to show members being intimidated by to reps to open their ballot papers and vote yes. didn't happen.

No. They simply have to show that the ballot papers weren't delivered to each member's home address - which they weren't.

That makes it possible for intimidation or coercion to take place. They don't have to prove that intimidation or coercion did happen, They simply need to show that the electoral rules specifically intended to make sure that it can't happen weren't followed. Again, they weren't.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 17:27

CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 17:37

daveyeff wrote:CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.

I really would like to think that, but realistically I am certain that these numpties have screwed the lot of us.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 18:03

Maybe the union could show that royal mail were at fault for not protecting the integrity of the mail. After all they were obviously aware what was going on but didn't try to stop it.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 18:20

daveyeff wrote:CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.



If unit/branch/national reps encouraged it they can.
If pics of it were retweeted on twitter by any official CWU account they can.
If videos/pics were posted or reposted on any official CWU Facebook group or account they can.
Basically if there is any evidence at all of active CWU endorsement... they are going to be held accountable.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 18:49

It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 19:01

I think their evidence is assumptive and jumped up. a picture of a D.O. workforce lining up outside a postbox to put their ballot papers in is not evidence. every single one of those staff might have received their ballot papers at their homes. a few at my workplace ASKED the rep to photograph/video them filling their papers in.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 19:26

LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 19:46

We're screwed and you all know it.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 19:49

That is unfortunately my experience and take on it Dan.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 20:06

Danelectro wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.

that's what our branch told us as well, a Q.C has been representing the union from the very start of the ballot. I hope the Q.C in this case isn't ''quickly cocked-up'' ….. RMs Q.C. is bound to stand for ''quietly conspiring''!! :pray

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 20:37

Danelectro wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.


I'm not saying it hasn't happened (and I actually think the social media coverage was dumb, but I have no idea on the legalities of that) but at this stage, we are still taking Royal Mail's word on this allegation - they are the ones saying they have evidence of this happening, while the union deny it, hence my wait and see comment. It could still just be last minute desperation from RM. Who knows?

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 20:44

wacko74 wrote:There has never been a better time to cripple RM with a simple (if unofficial) work to rule than right now
.
They will be reliant on us doing huge amounts of overtime in the next 7 weeks to deal with election material AND Christmas pressure, we will cause just as much disruption by simply declining their request for us to go over our time and we wouldn't lose any money through strike action.


Absolutely!

I got in the mood for this today by insisting we wouldn't have time for lapsing, taking a break and doing the job properly (taking care in the rain) and not rushing.

I do this every day anyway, but got in the mood today by practising various reponses to management requests over the next few weeks:

Mismanagement: Fancy coming in early to do tracked?

Me: Ah, no thanks.

Mismanagement: Fancy coming in early to do overweights?

Me: Ah, no thanks.

Mismanagement: What do you mean, you can't go over? It's Xmas Pressure!

Me: No pressure here, mate, your hierarchy have made well and truly sure that you can stick my December goodwill pretty much right where you intend to stuff your turkey/goose towards thre end of the month.

Oh, how RM must hate us middle aged stick in the muds who don't have money as our gods.

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 20:50

Do not MANAGERS pretend to be postal workers on their work site ie the videos we are forced to watch each week on the WTL?

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 22:50

LouBarlow wrote:
Danelectro wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.


I'm not saying it hasn't happened (and I actually think the social media coverage was dumb, but I have no idea on the legalities of that) but at this stage, we are still taking Royal Mail's word on this allegation - they are the ones saying they have evidence of this happening, while the union deny it, hence my wait and see comment. It could still just be last minute desperation from RM. Who knows?

So was it on cwu facebook or not. not on facebook meself or twitter but plenty have seen it going by posts on here.. also have seen plenty of photos of cwu members on their own phones btw showing off there ballot papers and guess who took the photos yes the rep..

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 22:56

aiden01 wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:
Danelectro wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.


I'm not saying it hasn't happened (and I actually think the social media coverage was dumb, but I have no idea on the legalities of that) but at this stage, we are still taking Royal Mail's word on this allegation - they are the ones saying they have evidence of this happening, while the union deny it, hence my wait and see comment. It could still just be last minute desperation from RM. Who knows?

So was it on cwu facebook or not. not on facebook meself or twitter but plenty have seen it going by posts on here.. also have seen plenty of photos of cwu members on their own phones btw showing off there ballot papers and guess who took the photos yes the rep..


How do u know the rep took the photos ?

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 23:32

Reading through this thread, my gut feeling is that RM will win the injunction :sad:

When will we know if they have got the injunction or not?

Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

09 Nov 2019, 23:45

hero22 wrote:
aiden01 wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:
Danelectro wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.


The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.


I'm not saying it hasn't happened (and I actually think the social media coverage was dumb, but I have no idea on the legalities of that) but at this stage, we are still taking Royal Mail's word on this allegation - they are the ones saying they have evidence of this happening, while the union deny it, hence my wait and see comment. It could still just be last minute desperation from RM. Who knows?

So was it on cwu facebook or not. not on facebook meself or twitter but plenty have seen it going by posts on here.. also have seen plenty of photos of cwu members on their own phones btw showing off there ballot papers and guess who took the photos yes the rep..


How do u know the rep took the photos ?

Because the people in the photos showed an told me hope that answers your question ..

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