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Yes vote

25 Sep 2019, 21:08

Flashman_ wrote:I have voted for every strike called for more than 25 years, in an attempt to stop the destruction of our jobs and preservation of the whole idea of Royal Mail. Despite my commitment to that I feel that the Union has always given in too easily, and will always accept what the company ultimately tells them. This is a game RMG plays, it gives an inch each time, allowing the union to claim victory. However just look at the reality of what happens, the company will always come back(and in recent times more regularly) with even more drastic changes. The job today has almost no resemblance to what it was when I joined as a result of effective Union collusion with the company. We are expected to do more work, we are constantly bullied my managers if we do the job by the book, and want to cut off. Vans are not suitable for the size of packets we now take. Our Pensions have been de-valued and we have to work longer to get them. loss of payments for DtD, later start times (that will have serious consequences for increasing skin cancer rates I believe),loss of shift allowances, effective electronic tagging of all, privatization. The list goes on, but I simply cannot list them all. So what exactly has the Union been up to all this time? When will the Union really draw a line in the sand. The Union really missed the boat the last time when we had overwhelming support for action but then messed it up legally, allowing the momentum to pass to the company. That led to this weak agreement that they are now trying to defend.
I will yet again vote for action, despite not actually being able to afford it any longer, But I will not expect anything from the Union except a rear guard action, as per recent history.
Just don't expect to have whatever concession the company may give to avoid a strike for long. Given the last mandate that the union had for a strike, we could have demanded much more, and actually may have put a stop to this race to the bottom. However it is the Union leaders and executive that seem to cave in. They do not even have the wit to go to the courts when an agreement is broken by the company. By contrast RMG ran as fast as they could to the courts to stop the last strike, citing a previous no strike deal that the Union and had ridiculously agreed to.




Although I have some sympathy with some of the sentiments of this statement. You can't deny that we are much better payed than we have ever been we have good attendance patterns and the best terms and conditions in the Industry not because of Royal Mails generosity but because of the CWU members who have made sacrifices and slaughtered some sacred cows on the way.

One thing that would focus the CWU more on the concerns on delivering agreements to the membership is to create a purely independent Union and pay for our own officials rather than them being on full release payed by the employer. Members would have to be prepared to pay higher subs but hopefully it could result in better simpler agreements than the complex of double speak we normally get.

I've voted YES.

Yes vote

25 Sep 2019, 21:13

Walking boots wrote:What happens if the company stands firm, surely in the end they have all the power, if we dont like it we dont have to be there, this is the first company I've ever worked for that recognises a union and it all seems very strange and old fashioned. I'm just worried this could become a stand off where we lose loads of wages and then give in to whatever Royal mail want.


Securing an overwhelming yes vote is the only chance we have to force Mr Back in to engaging in meaningful dialogue with the CWU. He has shown flagrant disregard up to this point from a negotiating point of view and couldnt even be bothered to turn up to the first day of mediation talks.

Yes vote

25 Sep 2019, 21:36

Walking boots wrote:What happens if the company stands firm, surely in the end they have all the power, if we dont like it we dont have to be there, this is the first company I've ever worked for that recognises a union and it all seems very strange and old fashioned. I'm just worried this could become a stand off where we lose loads of wages and then give in to whatever Royal mail want.


So - just walk away and just hope you get to work for an employer who will respect and value your labour and give fair terms and conditions ?

Standing together in a common cause for fair treatment, respect and decent working conditions is 'old-fashioned' ? - Yes it probably is, so are common decency, manners etc. does that mean we should not adhere to them?

Yes vote

25 Sep 2019, 23:40

Bernardson wrote:
Flashman_ wrote:I have voted for every strike called for more than 25 years, in an attempt to stop the destruction of our jobs and preservation of the whole idea of Royal Mail. Despite my commitment to that I feel that the Union has always given in too easily, and will always accept what the company ultimately tells them. This is a game RMG plays, it gives an inch each time, allowing the union to claim victory. However just look at the reality of what happens, the company will always come back(and in recent times more regularly) with even more drastic changes. The job today has almost no resemblance to what it was when I joined as a result of effective Union collusion with the company. We are expected to do more work, we are constantly bullied my managers if we do the job by the book, and want to cut off. Vans are not suitable for the size of packets we now take. Our Pensions have been de-valued and we have to work longer to get them. loss of payments for DtD, later start times (that will have serious consequences for increasing skin cancer rates I believe),loss of shift allowances, effective electronic tagging of all, privatization. The list goes on, but I simply cannot list them all. So what exactly has the Union been up to all this time? When will the Union really draw a line in the sand. The Union really missed the boat the last time when we had overwhelming support for action but then messed it up legally, allowing the momentum to pass to the company. That led to this weak agreement that they are now trying to defend.
I will yet again vote for action, despite not actually being able to afford it any longer, But I will not expect anything from the Union except a rear guard action, as per recent history.
Just don't expect to have whatever concession the company may give to avoid a strike for long. Given the last mandate that the union had for a strike, we could have demanded much more, and actually may have put a stop to this race to the bottom. However it is the Union leaders and executive that seem to cave in. They do not even have the wit to go to the courts when an agreement is broken by the company. By contrast RMG ran as fast as they could to the courts to stop the last strike, citing a previous no strike deal that the Union and had ridiculously agreed to.




Although I have some sympathy with some of the sentiments of this statement. You can't deny that we are much better payed than we have ever been we have good attendance patterns and the best terms and conditions in the Industry not because of Royal Mails generosity but because of the CWU members who have made sacrifices and slaughtered some sacred cows on the way.

One thing that would focus the CWU more on the concerns on delivering agreements to the membership is to create a purely independent Union and pay for our own officials rather than them being on full release payed by the employer. Members would have to be prepared to pay higher subs but hopefully it could result in better simpler agreements than the complex of double speak we normally get.

I've voted YES.

Isn't it more of a case that the others are underpaid rather then us been overpaid or at least a balance in the middle. If we lose out to the greed from above would you really say this is a fair job when your on less then £9 an hour slogging your body round the streets when there are plenty of jobs paying this amount. Like to see what people think of the safety of sensitive items passing through the mailing system to them if it becomes a minimum wage job with massive turnover.

Yes vote

25 Sep 2019, 23:58

It not only needs a big majority voting Yes, we also need a big turnout - i.e. people to actually vote !
I believe the legislation has changed so that for a strike to be legal, over 50% of those eligible to vote must vote in favour ?
So, if the number of eligible voters is 100,000
and 56,178 people return their ballot papers
and 49,999 of those vote YES (89%)
we could fall short of the legal threshold despite an 89% Yes vote

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 10:57

voted yes , but when has it got to be posted by?

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 12:15

anthonyok wrote:voted yes , but when has it got to be posted by?

The ballot closes 15th October.
With respect, you haven't voted at all if you haven't sent the ballot paper off !

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 13:19

wandle wrote:It not only needs a big majority voting Yes, we also need a big turnout - i.e. people to actually vote !
I believe the legislation has changed so that for a strike to be legal, over 50% of those eligible to vote must vote in favour ?
So, if the number of eligible voters is 100,000
and 56,178 people return their ballot papers
and 49,999 of those vote YES (89%)
we could fall short of the legal threshold despite an 89% Yes vote


Not quite see the "CODE OF PRACTICE - Industrial Action Ballots and Notice to Employers"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ployers--2

You need 50% of eligible voters to vote and a "simple majority" of those that voted to vote in favour:

Ballot thresholds for industrial action
25. Section 226(2) of the 1992 Act sets minimum thresholds of a 50% turnout in
all industrial action ballots, and for a 40% level of support in favour of
industrial action where the majority of those entitled to vote are normally
engaged in the provision of a specified important public service unless at
that time the union reasonably believes this not to be the case. In all cases,
a simple majority (i.e. more than half) of the votes cast must be in favour of
industrial action in order for it to go ahead.

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 16:04

I was asked a straight forward question this morning which I couldn't answer if we were to go on strike in November as expected would we forfeit our £200 pound xmas bonus?

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 17:28

At moment the only obstacle to Rico Back plans is the Union . The only bargaining card the Union holds is strike action. I wouldn’t be surprised if Rico and his team want the work force to strike , they will let the strike run and run until the work force drift back defeated and more importantly Union defeated . They will then proceed without any obstacles. Hopefully the Union have a Plan B and are not solely relying on strike action to solve the dispute.

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 17:54

Massive yes vote from me.

This guy is the real deal though and i think it's absolutely disgusting what they want while lining their pockets.

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 18:17

billycat wrote:I was asked a straight forward question this morning which I couldn't answer if we were to go on strike in November as expected would we forfeit our £200 pound xmas bonus?
Given that managers never got there bonuses I for one believe that the company have no intention of given us any Xmas bonus regardless of any industrial action.

Yes vote

26 Sep 2019, 19:19

billycat wrote:I was asked a straight forward question this morning which I couldn't answer if we were to go on strike in November as expected would we forfeit our £200 pound xmas bonus?


From the Christmas pay supplement planning document dated Aug 2016:

For each day (counted midnight to midnight, excluding Bank Holidays) on which an employee takes official industrial action, their supplement will be abated by 3%.
For each day (counted midnight to midnight, excluding Bank Holidays) on which an employee takes unofficial industrial action, their supplement will be abated by 10%.
In each of the above instances, the abatement for industrial action will be measured inclusively from the day the action starts until the day normal work recommences.


From the CWU Productivity Scheme Underpin Payment document dated Nov 2015, para 13

13. Subject to meeting other payment criteria, payments are not reduced for part years worked, family friendly leave, industrial action, Unpaid Special Leave, periods of Sick Half or Sick No Pay prior to the date of payment, nor for periods of short term substitution outside of an eligible grade. Employees on career break at the date of payment will not be eligible.


Whether these rules are still extant is another thing........

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 12:41

Why would a christmas bonus come into anyones thoughts reg this dispute? Or is that the greed thing coming into it again with ppl . Shakes my head

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 14:39

Chelseablue wrote:Why would a christmas bonus come into anyones thoughts reg this dispute? Or is that the greed thing coming into it again with ppl . Shakes my head


Because Christmas is a particularly expensive time? I happen to be in the fortunate position my wife earns a decent salary meaning I won't miss a day's money here and there or our bonus but not everybody is that lucky. I have voted yes and will walk out; if you live week to week that might not be an option though.

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 14:57

£200 is nothing compared to the £1820 RRIS payment per annum which we will likely forfeit if the plan to drop Saturdays as a delivery day goes ahead at the end of next year. Dependent on timing of any industrial action to collide stoppages with say election mailouts we may not actually have to actually strike especially if we get a near 100% yes vote.
The bosses seem fairly committed to where they wish to take the company so I'm not optimistic for the future but we have to try and save the RM if we can.

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 15:23

Celgar wrote:£200 is nothing compared to the £1820 RRIS payment per annum which we will likely forfeit if the plan to drop Saturdays as a delivery day goes ahead at the end of next year.



Another money for nothing/grandfather right ''legacy payment'' that most of the workforce aren't lucky enough to get anyway

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 15:41

ihatedogs wrote:RM could stick to the four pillars agreement.

We need the consultant led 'new parcel strategy' to be binned!! Fair enough to introducing conveyer belts and machinery to increase our parcel capacity although that has to be combined with RM sales directors & staff acquiring more contracts and business otherwise increased capacity would not be used.
Once across the ground delivering letters, flats, packets, & parcels is the optimum way for us to deliver our product as RM have said themselves until fairly recently. If the union are not able or willing to defend this then we have not chance. Securing a pay rise for part time staff via the SWW is not what we should be concentrating on. Even the idea of moving to a five day operation cannot be even discussed by RM until the talks on the USO which won't start until over a year from now. That is a threat for the future which should be fought then and not now. It is just muddying the waters and drawing our fire.
The new parcel strategy should be our sold target as that is the immediate threat to thousands of jobs and a total change in how we work in RM. In the long term it is in effect the end of ALL our jobs as we currently complete them!

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 15:45

wacko74 wrote:
Celgar wrote:£200 is nothing compared to the £1820 RRIS payment per annum which we will likely forfeit if the plan to drop Saturdays as a delivery day goes ahead at the end of next year.



Another money for nothing/grandfather right ''legacy payment'' that most of the workforce aren't lucky enough to get anyway

I'm only a postie so I don't have access to the information as regards which parts of the UK receive this payment.

Maybe Martin Walsh has access to this data and can let us all know?? I suspect a fairly large part of the workforce receive it given the general attitude of people to working over the weekend.

Yes vote

29 Sep 2019, 15:48

I've been a postie for over 30 years and have never had a payment like this.

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