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ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (UPDATED APR 2019)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : NEW CORONAVIRUS FORUM... HERE



UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 12:45

lambert246 wrote:Ok thanks. A link would be handy as I cannot locate a review date in offcoms 2019/20 report where it would logically be.
I gotta skoot. If anyone could PM me or post to the bringing forward by 2 years I would appreciate.


More detail in OFCOM Annual Plan here https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/141914/statement-ofcom-annual-plan-2019-20.pdf

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 12:54

How can you really expect the sheep to do the job properly?
I’m sick of hearing that argument
There have been workers doing the job properly for years only to be broken by bullying managers
Do you think the sheep want any of that bullying turned to them ?
Tp lives on a totally different planet to the people he is meant to represent
We were ready for actiom ,he got the mandate .then secured the money for fulltime release reps
He got us to vote on a total sham agreement
Change of culture ,he wasn’t serious was he ?
Pension ? Hows it going
Hour off working week .more pressure to complete more like
I really do fear for the union if they can’t get this bullying sorted, at the end of his speech there ,it wasn’t even one of the things he considered ,that speaks volumes !
Concentrate on what the members want ,they want to do their work ,go home on time and not be bullied .

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 14:02

wf wrote:How can you really expect the sheep to do the job properly?
I’m sick of hearing that argument
There have been workers doing the job properly for years only to be broken by bullying managers
Do you think the sheep want any of that bullying turned to them ?
Tp lives on a totally different planet to the people he is meant to represent
We were ready for actiom ,he got the mandate .then secured the money for fulltime release reps
He got us to vote on a total sham agreement
Change of culture ,he wasn’t serious was he ?
Pension ? Hows it going
Hour off working week .more pressure to complete more like
I really do fear for the union if they can’t get this bullying sorted, at the end of his speech there ,it wasn’t even one of the things he considered ,that speaks volumes !
Concentrate on what the members want ,they want to do their work ,go home on time and not be bullied .


Well said again. This is what has happened to me, I come in to work and do the job the way RM say you should do the job, trolley's taking breaks and so on. How does RM treat me? They bully me every day and have been for years as I can't "complete" I am now out on sick with stress. Going to the union in northern Ireland is like talking to another manager, and RM See's this and just walks over anyone who just does the job properly.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 14:28

lambert246 wrote:https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/annual-plan-2019-20

Found this but initial speed read cannot find review date, only that they are committed to maintaining USO


This is OFCOM's Programme of work for 19/20:

We will bring forward some of the work we had planned to undertake as part of our next
review of the regulation of Royal Mail
which, as we set out in spring 2017, we intended to
undertake by 2022.

3.28 In the next financial year, in addition to our current work programme, we will:
• Carry out a review of Royal Mail’s efficiency. This work will give us more insights into
the likely future sustainability of the universal postal service. We intend to provide our
latest view on the sustainability of the universal postal service in Q3.

• Seek to understand the needs of postal users better. We will carry out research to
review the extent to which the postal market is meeting the reasonable needs of users
in light of changes in the market, in particular the growth in online shopping and
continued decline in letters. We will assess implications arising from changes in postal
user needs. We plan to publish preliminary findings in Q4.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 15:55

How can you really expect the sheep to do the job properly?
I’m sick of hearing that argument
There have been workers doing the job properly for years only to be broken by bullying managers


I spent years trying to encourage members to "do the job properly" only to finally see it for what it was once I started spending time with senior union officials.

It's an excuse to pass the buck, to do nothing to help frontline staff, it's nothing more than a handy get out clause for lazy reps who can't be arsed defending their unit, area or division and it goes all the way up to the top of the union. Everything would be so much better if members just did the job properly, it's really all their fault blah blah blah.

You stop the bullying, the pressure, the constant harassment members will in the most part do the job properly, you leave them at the mercy of management they will quite rightly do what they have to do to keep their job and their sanity.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 17:50

gand wrote:
wf wrote:How can you really expect the sheep to do the job properly?
I’m sick of hearing that argument
There have been workers doing the job properly for years only to be broken by bullying managers
Do you think the sheep want any of that bullying turned to them ?
Tp lives on a totally different planet to the people he is meant to represent
We were ready for actiom ,he got the mandate .then secured the money for fulltime release reps
He got us to vote on a total sham agreement
Change of culture ,he wasn’t serious was he ?
Pension ? Hows it going
Hour off working week .more pressure to complete more like
I really do fear for the union if they can’t get this bullying sorted, at the end of his speech there ,it wasn’t even one of the things he considered ,that speaks volumes !
Concentrate on what the members want ,they want to do their work ,go home on time and not be bullied .


Well said again. This is what has happened to me, I come in to work and do the job the way RM say you should do the job, trolley's taking breaks and so on. How does RM treat me? They bully me every day and have been for years as I can't "complete" I am now out on sick with stress. Going to the union in northern Ireland is like talking to another manager, and RM See's this and just walks over anyone who just does the job properly.

Just hope the members in ni know 1 of the pec members is looking your support for re-election to pec will defo not be getting mine as only time you see him is when there is an election of some kind..and even then when he visits the mc he only seems to talk to management :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 18:38

Woody Guthrie wrote:

I spent years trying to encourage members to "do the job properly" only to finally see it for what it was once I started spending time with senior union officials.

It's an excuse to pass the buck, to do nothing to help frontline staff, it's nothing more than a handy get out clause for lazy reps who can't be arsed defending their unit, area or division and it goes all the way up to the top of the union. Everything would be so much better if members just did the job properly, it's really all their fault blah blah blah.

You stop the bullying, the pressure, the constant harassment members will in the most part do the job properly, you leave them at the mercy of management they will quite rightly do what they have to do to keep their job and their sanity.


Well said.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 19:08

Po.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 20:09

Don't waste time telling members to do the job properly, they know what they've got to do but refuse to do it. Therefore let them learn the hard way and it's coming with pda timings, if you're a runner then you WILL get more and eventually the penny will drop. It has at my office, finally, but it was too late for some and there was no re-pick of duties either so what they got they were stuck with.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

28 Jul 2019, 22:37

To be fair to Terry, things would or could be a lot worse if it wasn't for the unions involvement. I think a lot of the staff have to take responsibility especially those who refuse to do the job properly. I have family in other jobs with no union and their treatment is far worse than what we get.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 01:55

arnold cheshire wrote:It's important to make the job harder by losing the hour

NO you are contractually obliged to work your hours as that is your contract of employment hours if your hours are reduced they should reduce workload if not bring it back at the due time even if it is two bags of mail and let them sort it out, But you should tell them before leaving the office but it stands to reason to anyone the reduction of hours will make the job impossible to do in the time allowed by the way What the hell are we paying managers is not what they are for?

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 07:36

umm isnt the 'hour off' just for indoor work ie everything that comes just wont get sorted?
Therefore when the time times up just leave a york of unsorted mail throw your round out band up and go?. The outdoor shouldnt take any less or any more time

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 18:42

Woody Guthrie wrote:
How can you really expect the sheep to do the job properly?
I’m sick of hearing that argument
There have been workers doing the job properly for years only to be broken by bullying managers


I spent years trying to encourage members to "do the job properly" only to finally see it for what it was once I started spending time with senior union officials.

It's an excuse to pass the buck, to do nothing to help frontline staff, it's nothing more than a handy get out clause for lazy reps who can't be arsed defending their unit, area or division and it goes all the way up to the top of the union. Everything would be so much better if members just did the job properly, it's really all their fault blah blah blah.

You stop the bullying, the pressure, the constant harassment members will in the most part do the job properly, you leave them at the mercy of management they will quite rightly do what they have to do to keep their job and their sanity.


So true . They really need to deal with this or the union is dead and worthless .why are people going to keep paying dues for a service they arent getting
The same old argument about pay rises is no good when your getting tortured by these people and not getting help

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 19:24

Phantom wrote:Don't waste time telling members to do the job properly, they know what they've got to do but refuse to do it. Therefore let them learn the hard way and it's coming with pda timings, if you're a runner then you WILL get more and eventually the penny will drop. It has at my office, finally, but it was too late for some and there was no re-pick of duties either so what they got they were stuck with.


Then they should slow down and cut off. Cant force people to work faster to get more work done than someone else has, that isn't a fair and equal workload that always gets mentioned. I suppose if they do it in every office it's a case of if you can't beat em join em and start cutting off and doing the properly.
In my office if they did it based on PDA timings without taking into account the work actually done within them times the length of duty spans would be ridiculously unbalanced. Some would be 2 + hours longer easily whereas the only difference at the moment is people delivering them

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 19:46

Listen to Terry lording it up. Another hour off the working week probably to account for falling mail volumes, but what about the increase in packets or badly designed indoor work plans?? The only reason why posties seem to be working these "half days" is due to the fact that many of them regularly turn up for work an hour unpaid before their start time and work through their breaks. Quite happily giving away hours of their time for free, they aren't the problem posties that are causing problems for the managers. And blaming the posties for doing this doesn't cure the disease.

For example

- I've seen posties who thought sod it, my union man hasn't helped me get this monster delivery with loads of new builds taken off my duty, and every day for weeks on end I want these calls taken off so its at least somewhere similar to everyone else's when the planners first came in, and its not happening.

- I've seen many posties who have to fully prep their partners delivery as well as their own realise that its just not do-able in the indoor work plan time; but when I want a loop taken off because we are not fully prepped at 8am the manager tells me they will come back later and reassess.......and then buggers off leaving me to go and find them in an office full of managers

- I've seen managers look after their chosen few who do overtime for them and pick on the ones that start on time and refuse to do overtime.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

29 Jul 2019, 21:00

postslippete wrote:Listen to Terry lording it up. Another hour off the working week probably to account for falling mail volumes, but what about the increase in packets or badly designed indoor work plans?? The only reason why posties seem to be working these "half days" is due to the fact that many of them regularly turn up for work an hour unpaid before their start time and work through their breaks. Quite happily giving away hours of their time for free, they aren't the problem posties that are causing problems for the managers. And blaming the posties for doing this doesn't cure the disease.

The posties are part of the problem, they give a false impression on what's doable and what isn't. Higher up aren't going to give a s**t if it's down to people coming in early or working through their breaks. They'll just see the work being done by the specified time. Why would they bother putting extra hours in? As far as they're concerned the work is getting done so there's no need for extra hours to be put in and chances are they'd then be looking for scope to take hours out of the office

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

30 Jul 2019, 17:14

SpacePhoenix wrote:The posties are part of the problem, they give a false impression on what's doable and what isn't. Higher up aren't going to give a s**t if it's down to people coming in early or working through their breaks. They'll just see the work being done by the specified time. Why would they bother putting extra hours in? As far as they're concerned the work is getting done so there's no need for extra hours to be put in and chances are they'd then be looking for scope to take hours out of the office



Aye, and then we will all be screwed won't we? There must be a point whereby duties get too big and staff can't complete and then what happens?? The managers who are allowing staff to start and finish early will be shooting themselves in the foot because they will then have to go out and delivery those loops. Unless of course, they have got a pool of runners who don't mind ghosting the overtime.

UPDATE - HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

30 Jul 2019, 18:28

I fully agree with starting on time and taking your breaks and we all should.

However I used to work in I.T working on data and reporting and I have been thinking about this.

i) You have a signing in time which is recorded. Even if you start before your official duty start time it should be included in any analysis of days work.

ii) The PDA actuals detect your movement/location so must know whether or not you take your full meal relief. Again this should be included in stats for that day as if a break is not taken it is clearly not representative of the outdoor time completed. After all they cannot have it both ways, if you have PDA Actuals to measure work then it should equally measure whether or not you took your break as this is the only way to have accurate figures.

My point is that is not difficult to factor early start times and breaks not taken in the stats produced to determine the actual time worked. It is self defeating and inaccurate for management to ignore these 2 time chunks and for them to conclude that a duty is too easy and needs to have additional deliveries added.
Last edited by itinerant on 30 Jul 2019, 20:26, edited 1 time in total.

UPDATE - HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

30 Jul 2019, 19:50

It is self defeating and inaccurate for management to ignore these 2 time chunks and for them to conclude that a duty is too easy and needs to have additional deliveries added.


Exactly.
There's a huge difference between encouraging staff to start on time on take their breaks which is never a bad thing and making ridiculous claims that management will just add another half hour to a delivery that's finishing half an hour early. As I've already pointed out it's the postie finishing early not the duty and Royal Mail doesn't allocate work to individuals, it allocates work to duties. What happens when the duty changes hands an a day off, annual leave or a resign? You then have a failing duty.

Management may not be the smartest but they're not going to deliberately set duties up to fail, they may do it through sheer incompetence but not as a work plan because it will do what every manager tries to avoid. It would bring them to the attention of their own managers.

UPDATE – HONOURING AND DEPLOYING THE FOUR PILLARS AND PAY AGREEMENT

31 Jul 2019, 17:32

Phantom wrote:Don't waste time telling members to do the job properly, they know what they've got to do but refuse to do it. Therefore let them learn the hard way and it's coming with pda timings, if you're a runner then you WILL get more and eventually the penny will drop. It has at my office, finally, but it was too late for some and there was no re-pick of duties either so what they got they were stuck with.



More of what though?? In our office, many of the runners are also taking out additional loops on other rounds on overtime and yet still finish on time. And they still get paid for this overtime. I wonder what the PDA actuals actually say to this?? :hmmmm If managers suddenly decided not to pay them for doing overtime and instead bolted those extra calls on their duty instead, they will soon find out that these posties won't want any overtime any more and the managers may have to go out and deliver the work themselves.

In truth, that may not be a bad thing but its funny how managers tend to 'look after' the chosen few instead.

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