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I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 21:43

I think that we must look at what we are being offered.No pay rise this year, a very small one next year that royalmail will decide on. £375 that will be taxed down to £300.A third of our pension stolen away. Later finishes, 5pm in dark, cold winter months and owning the workload, so working until the work is gone (should be good at Christmas). Make up your own mind, I definitely have!

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 21:54

Walking boots wrote:
tommythreesheds wrote:When you're not doing so well, vote for a better life for yourself. If you are doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others.

I'm not sure I'm doing well, I'm a part time Postie with no chance of being made full time, I worried about how much money I stand to lose by striking

How much do you gain to lose long term by voting no?

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 22:13

A yes vote doesn't make you obliged to strike though. It just gives the cwu a stronger hand on negotiating.

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 22:32

One thing that does annoy me is the union saying they won't accept a two tier workforce or worse terms for new starters yet allowed RM to do just that by putting people in DC scheme while keeping others in DB. Now many of those DC members, including myself will be voting for AND striking to help the DB members keep it.

Union didn't give a monkeys about bettering us in DC until DB was at risk.
Last edited by Acca Dacca on 14 Sep 2017, 22:37, edited 3 times in total.

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 22:33

While I understand the OP's position I would ask them this

What attracted you to this job?? Was it the hours? The pay? The sick pay? The pension? The guaranteed hours?

All these benefits we enjoy are these days head and shoulders above what many other employers offer - the reason for this is that we have a union - a union that has over many many years fought long and hard to get these conditions for us - and yes on occasion we have had to strike to get or keep them, striking is never done on a whim it is done to fight for what we have and to keep it - without the union we would not have these

Take a look at newer employers like Amazon or Sports Direct - google what it is like to work for them - it makes very grim reading indeed - without strikes and the union we would be where they are

None of us want to strike, a strong return on the ballot may mean we do not have to strike, but if we have to we will

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 22:37

Acca Dacca wrote:One thing that does annoy me is the union saying they won't accept a two tier workforce or worse terms for new starters yet allowed RM to do just that by putting people in DC scheme while keeping others in DB. Now many of those DC members, including myself will be striking to help the DB members keep it.

Union didn't give a monkeys about bettering us in DC until DB was at risk.


We won't be keeping the DB scheme. It is no longer sustainable now that nobody new since 2008 is paying into it. The only real option is to unify everyone's pension so we are all on the same terms. As a current DB holder I expect to be much worse off, however I still expect we will all be better off than with what RM are offering. I simply cannot afford to retire on that ... ever.

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 22:38

Spedley wrote:
Acca Dacca wrote:One thing that does annoy me is the union saying they won't accept a two tier workforce or worse terms for new starters yet allowed RM to do just that by putting people in DC scheme while keeping others in DB. Now many of those DC members, including myself will be striking to help the DB members keep it.

Union didn't give a monkeys about bettering us in DC until DB was at risk.


We won't be keeping the DB scheme. It is no longer sustainable now that nobody new since 2008 is paying into it. The only real option is to unify everyone's pension so we are all on the same terms. As a current DB holder I expect to be much worse off, however I still expect we will all be better off than with what RM are offering. I simply cannot afford to retire on that ... ever.


Who allowed RM to stop new memberspaying into it and instead into a DC?

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 23:31

world class male wrote:
chrisj wrote:You are bold to start a thread with such a topic and I commend the administrators for letting you have your say.



if admin did delete this thread due to 99.9% disagreeing then the site should be shut down, nothing abusive or offensive, just someone's thoughts


OFF TOPIC

We don't delete ANY thread that have different views from ours, every body is welcome to have their say on here.
As long as the rules are followed we leave well alone.

Please remember everyone is welcome on this site. Customers, CWU Officers, Royal Mail Managers, all Royal Mail employees, the General Public, the press, MPs, so please do not resort to abuse if people of a different political persuasion or viewpoint to you, posts on a thread.

BACK ON TOPIC

I'm voting no

14 Sep 2017, 23:39

Walking Boots, i'm voting NO, though it looks like a large Yes vote.
Been in job 3 years and part time, I really cannot see why Union Bosses calling for strike action, it's as if they are still in the 70's and have no idea on how modern large companies run,
and the Posties really have no idea how good they have got it, try working in a Supermarket, minimum wage, no paid breaks, no sick pay, 1% pension , I could go on.
Any strike will lead to a exodus of valuable business and really once the business is gone Royal Mail will do what they like as any future strike action will be laughed at as there will be no
prime customers to protect, only 2nd class mailshots and Ebay Packets,

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 03:44

Walking boots wrote:I am a member of the cwu and I appreciate what they have done for our terms and conditions, I will go with the majority but I haven't really heard an argument that is relevant to a part time worker with 1 years service


Not heard about the average hours worked when on leave. That's being pushed by the CWU, that ONLY affects Paty Timers, being put on the same pension as the rest of us, that's better than the pension you are on now.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 03:49

Scrumpy wrote:Walking Boots, i'm voting NO, though it looks like a large Yes vote.

Been in job 3 years and part time, I really cannot see why Union Bosses calling for strike action,

and the Posties really have no idea how good they have got it, try working in a Supermarket, minimum wage, no paid breaks, no sick pay, 1% pension , I could go on.


We have it so good because of the Union, not the other way round.

Without the Union we will end up with "minimum wage, no paid breaks, no sick pay, 1% pension", so why not try to delay the so called inevitable instead of surrendering cheaply.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 04:53

So we have a couple of new posters voting no. Still expect the biggest YES vote and turnout this union has ever had. This is the last stand and winter is coming.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 06:07

I am in a similar position to the OP - only been in a few years, never going to have a massive pension because of that, no legacy payments to be taken away, no childcare issues to need to finish early etc etc.

But I will be voting YES for industrial action and the main reason is what RM are hiding behind the word "flexibility" in the offer. The proof of this is in the way I have been swamped by them with messages and mailings - what company has ever taken such action to get their message across (while hiding the real message)?

RM have talked of a "race to the bottom". That race is being made by RM itself in their determination to compete with other companies who don't have any real rules to abide by. The courier companies don't have to potentially deliver to every house every day and for a fixed fee. Their staff (who they love to compare us with) don't have to prepare and deliver door-to-doors every day - an one column on the average frame has 80 slots, 4 d2d means you are preparing over 300 items before you even start on the post - it may only take a few minutes, but RM think that anything which takes a few minutes actually takes no extra time. I see items doorstepped by couriers on a daily basis, and the great thing is that most householders immediately blame RM for everything delivered to them! There are loads of other reasons why there is no comparison between RM and other delivery companies.

When I joined RM there were still afternoon packet delivery duties. RM took them away to save money, now their future plan is based on the ability to be able to deliver packets later in the day. What sort of turnaround is that, and who had the great idea? At my office around a third of postie have the job because they needed to finish in the early afternoon for childcare reasons, what are they going to do if 'flexibility' turns the job into a regular 9am to 5pm?

One of the mailings from RM said to think of the community. That is the same community that Royal Mail Group took away Post Offices from, the same community that has had later collections taken away from post boxes - often boxes without a date tag to know it has been emptied. The same community that posties no longer have any time to be part of by having a quick chat with someone who never sees anyone else all day.

They talk of best jobs - that came in a week when my office failed to get everything through IPS on every day!! A week when we cut off on a Tuesday!!!

I am not a left winger, I have never voted Labour and never will - for many, many reason. But this isn't about politics, its about whether you want some form of a decent job, or to be expected to be "flexible" with no real idea what that will mean.

To repeat, I'll be voting YES.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 06:57

I'm part time, i have no child care issues which would be affected by late finishes.

But I'm voting YES!

To the OP do you still think you will vote no after reading the replies on this thread?

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 07:06

labbloke wrote:So we have a couple of new posters voting no. Still expect the biggest YES vote and turnout this union has ever had. This is the last stand and winter is coming.

While I agree that it will almost certainly be a massive yes vote I think the part timers might be the weak link when it comes to the vote, I've spoken to quite a few that are not bothering to vote at all! It will also be the part timers that will be the first to cross the picket line, I'm willing to strike for 2 shifts, beyond that I will be at work, on a 25 hour contract I have not been able to save anything to make up the shortfall

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 08:17

Think what the part-timers (I'm one) need to think about, is having a finish time is also under threat. Right now the only protection we have from managers bullying and harassment is they can't make us work over. Now imagine if that was taken away. Union would be as well to hang up their boots if they lose that one.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 08:40

Walking boots wrote:
tommythreesheds wrote:When you're not doing so well, vote for a better life for yourself. If you are doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others.

I'm not sure I'm doing well, I'm a part time Postie with no chance of being made full time, I worried about how much money I stand to lose by striking
Without unions fighting on our behalf, we would not have the terms and conditions we have. Neither would we have up to six weeks annual leave, Every thing we have, had to be fought for. Some times you have to lose some thing to gain some thing. Do you know my pension is due to be at least thousands of pounds more per year than much younger staff. How can this be right. Moya had £200,000 put into her pension and her scheme is not being wound up. Stand up and fight, because if you don't they will be back for more in the next pay agreement.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 09:17

Scrumpy wrote:Walking Boots, i'm voting NO, though it looks like a large Yes vote.
Been in job 3 years and part time, I really cannot see why Union Bosses calling for strike action, it's as if they are still in the 70's and have no idea on how modern large companies run,
and the Posties really have no idea how good they have got it, try working in a Supermarket, minimum wage, no paid breaks, no sick pay, 1% pension , I could go on.
Any strike will lead to a exodus of valuable business and really once the business is gone Royal Mail will do what they like as any future strike action will be laughed at as there will be no
prime customers to protect, only 2nd class mailshots and Ebay Packets,

i think, if we dont support our union we will be looking at the terms you have described. I know what i'd rather.

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 11:35

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
Walking boots wrote:I am a member of the cwu and I appreciate what they have done for our terms and conditions, I will go with the majority but I haven't really heard an argument that is relevant to a part time worker with 1 years service


Not heard about the average hours worked when on leave. That's being pushed by the CWU, that ONLY affects Paty Timers, being put on the same pension as the rest of us, that's better than the pension you are on now.


To simply mention something and wish it to happen is not pushing the part time issues. The are still not putting it in prints despite needing all the votes esp the growing number of part timers.

In politics, if people keep asking the same question then the message is not getting through or the players do not want to deal with the issues.

The Union had had a lot of time and many complaints and opportunities to make things better for part timers and help everyone in the process.

On the issue of Pensions, can we now actually trust or respect the CWU when they could not even get their own house in order and are massively in pension deficit? Furthermore, RM has now come up with sums claiming the CWU will make 70% worse off.

Who to believe or trust?

The Union has achieved a lot but do not compare the achievements when RM was government owned monopoly to a more competitive field and being a private company...

I'm voting no

15 Sep 2017, 12:37

I think that if you are in a union, you should support that union even if you don't directly agree with them on every issue. The reason being that unions maximise the value of employee terms and conditions. Without that there would be a race to the lowest terms and conditions that the business can get away with.
We all know there are complex issues behind these kind of disputes, for instance, I strongly agree that introducing technology and operational changes to businesses, eventually leads to increases in the wealth of a nation and we would still be in the dark ages if we didn't allow it. I also believe that the human impact of these kinds of changes must be taken into account and the only effective way that human voice can be heard is through a union.

I see it all as a balance of forces and you as a union member are on side of the workers and should make your presence felt, there will be plenty of force on the other side without apathy or by actively undermining the side of the union.

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