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LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

16 Aug 2019, 14:20

Subman wrote:As ACAS doesn't operate over here in NI, I contacted the equivalent agency, the Labour Relations Agency to pursue payment of average holiday pay.They told me they could do nothing for me and that I, or the union would need to take a legal case against Royal Mail.
Would any CWU rep like to advise.

Can assure you reps in ni will do nothing to help you. been there and tried. like i said previously seriously pissed off with cwu seems like members in ni dont exist ffs. :arrrghhh

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

18 Aug 2019, 19:49

Put my claim in and got response for last date I got underpaid via holiday pay and if its not within 3 months of the claim being put in don't expect a result as tribunal won't look at it luckily I claimed with just enough time also if ur claiming for beginning of May or April the company say u need at least 20 days in holiday pot to be even looked at. That's what my acas rep told me anyway

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

19 Aug 2019, 18:28

Hi,
I have made a claim through ACAS for holiday pay.
Could anyone tell me when you work out your claim do you work out average hours worked or average pay for the previous 12 weeks.
Many thanks.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

19 Aug 2019, 19:04

MOGGY346 wrote:Hi,
I have made a claim through ACAS for holiday pay.
Could anyone tell me when you work out your claim do you work out average hours worked or average pay for the previous 12 weeks.
Many thanks.

Average overtime over your contract hrs, before tax basically the amount on your payslips next to overtime. Add up 12 weeks worth from week before your holiday you are claiming for then divide by 12,for each week of your holiday.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

19 Aug 2019, 22:02

Thank you Rambo1,much appreciated.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

20 Aug 2019, 12:13

Average overtime over your contract hrs, before tax basically the amount on your payslips next to overtime. Add up 12 weeks worth from week before your holiday you are claiming for then divide by 12,for each week of your holiday. did all that got the following reply sent ACAS a figure of the previous 12 weeks before my last holiday, . for the overtime £1066 average of around £90 per week, received a email saying that I hadn't given a breakdown,a list of when I took my holidays and a breakdown of the shortfall in wages ,and says it will be up to me to decide if I go to a tribunal,told them to forget it, will wait till union hopefully comes to some agreement
stodgy88
Online

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

20 Aug 2019, 16:59

Got my offer today.

They have agreed to pay what am due for my most recent holiday however are saying they don't need to back date it for 2 years due to there being a 3 month gap between my most recent holiday and the holiday before, or at least that's what I think they are saying. The guy from accas said on phone that I should take advice from the union before proceeding.


As per our earlier telephone conversation, I can confirm that the respondent representative has put forward an offer of £xxx.xx

Please let me know if this is agreeable in principle.

In making the offer they included the following information:

I confirm that my client is prepared to offer to settle the claim, on the basis of no liability and in exchange for a signed COT3.

For each of the Claimant's annual leave periods, we have calculated a holiday pay amount (HP) based on all overtime worked within the 12 week period preceding the annual leave.

It is well established that a three month gap between alleged deductions will break the series of deductions for the purposes of claiming underpayments of holiday pay.

Having considered the record of annual leave taken by the Claimant, a gap of over 3 months exists between the period of holiday taken in February and in May 2019. This 'gap' therefore breaks the series of deductions and the Claimant is not entitled to any additional payment for annual leave taken before May 2019.

The Claimant has taken two periods of annual leave following the gap, totalling 16 days. The HP figures for this period of leave is £xxx.xx and my client is prepared to pay that sum in full and final settlement of this claim. The Respondent's position is that this figure is all that the Claimant would be entitled to claim in the Employment Tribunal in any event.

We also attach draft COT3 terms. Please emphasise the confidentiality provisions to Claimant or his representative.

In regards to the above mentioned draft COT3. Please find the document attached for your consideration. If you are not sure of any of the terms of the agreement, please give me a call and I will talk you through them.

If this wording is acceptable or you would like to discuss any changes to it, please give me a call. Please note that you do not need to sign this COT3 agreement, it is a draft.

The final wording will be sent to you once both parties have come to an agreement and at which point, the three-step Acas COT3 agreement procedure is as follows:
1. Two paper copies of the agreement are sent in the post by Acas along with a letter explaining the signing process to the Claimant for signature.
2. The Claimant forwards the two signed copies to the Respondent.
3. The Respondent signs the two copies, retaining one copy and sending the other back to the Claimant.
I look forward to hearing from you

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

21 Aug 2019, 19:28

^^^hopefully you'll get some advice or guidance from ACAS or CWU on how to respond to that legalese mumbo jumbo, we can't be expected to fight RM lawyers on our own!

So basically they're trying to say that if there's a 3 month gap in periods of annual leave at any point in the last 2 years they only have to pay you as far back as that gap, but if someone hasn't had a 3 month gap they'll get a full 2 years back pay?

How can that possibly make any sense?

Do please keep us updated on how you proceed.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

21 Aug 2019, 20:34

Subman wrote:As ACAS doesn't operate over here in NI, I contacted the equivalent agency, the Labour Relations Agency to pursue payment of average holiday pay.They told me they could do nothing for me and that I, or the union would need to take a legal case against Royal Mail.
Would any CWU rep like to advise.

Just been told this tonite for members in ni contact ITS 2 cromac quay ormeau road bt7 2jd phone 02890327666... hope this helps anybody from ni who wants to pursue a claim.. have personally given up.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

22 Aug 2019, 18:10

wacko74 wrote:^^^hopefully you'll get some advice or guidance from ACAS or CWU on how to respond to that legalese mumbo jumbo, we can't be expected to fight RM lawyers on our own!

So basically they're trying to say that if there's a 3 month gap in periods of annual leave at any point in the last 2 years they only have to pay you as far back as that gap, but if someone hasn't had a 3 month gap they'll get a full 2 years back pay?

How can that possibly make any sense?

Do please keep us updated on how you proceed.


From the looks of it burghboy tried to claim (through the early conciliation process) for holiday periods that were more than 3 months ago.

As the deadline for taking a claim of any sort to industrial tribunal is 3 months less 1 day, I think the text being referred to is their way of saying
for those parts of your claim you are beyond the 3 month time limit (ie 3 months since your last day of holiday), for going to industrial tribunal - so they can't be included in the early conciliation process (which is the precursor to going to a tribunal) regardless. The only part of the claim that can be
taken forward is the part that is less than 3 months since the early conciliation process was started.

I think the only way we're going to get back holiday pay going back lets say two years is if there's a full legal challenge of some sort from CWU (perhaps
with the backing of ACAS who, if they are inundated with claims might say 'WTF is happening RM? Why aren't you paying your people properly?')

For any claim to be valid you have to start the early conciliation process no later than 3 months before your last day of holiday. - Just do it!! :thumbup :thumbup

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

23 Aug 2019, 15:19

The info am getting from Cwu is to take any offer, then in the unlikely event they reach an arrangement with RM for backdated you will still get the 2 years minus what you've already been paid. Thats from my unit rep who says that's what he's being told from higher up.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

06 Sep 2019, 09:09

Finally received my offer, does shift pay need to be included? And has anyone rejected their offer yet and gone to tribunal?

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 02:20

I've heard from ACAS yesterday, my claim was submitted to RM at the end of august but there is now a 4-6 week response time from RM, so probably mid October before I hear anything.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 02:23

Jamie162 wrote:Finally received my offer, does shift pay need to be included? And has anyone rejected their offer yet and gone to tribunal?


Can i ask is your offer for a full backdated 2 years?

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 04:51

No only to the start of this tax year and they haven’t included my shift pay

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 06:08

Jamie162 wrote:No only to the start of this tax year and they haven’t included my shift pay



So only to April then!

As with everything related to RM they're just making this up as they go along... some people are getting offered full 2 years others not, some people are being made to jump through hoops and provide average hours/pay info, others not.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 06:21

Our manager has stated he has been told to no longer accept any grievances relating to this, how can they not take a grievance surely that's not right.

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday

07 Sep 2019, 09:41

My feet are on fire wrote:Our manager has stated he has been told to no longer accept any grievances relating to this, how can they not take a grievance surely that's not right.

put in a grievance about them not accepting a grievance :left:

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday (Dialogue with ACAS)

11 Sep 2019, 19:12

Where on ACAS do we claim regarding this. Hearing some have received payouts already?

LTB 372/19 - Royal Mail Group Holiday (Dialogue with ACAS)

12 Sep 2019, 11:51

Andrewp1978 wrote:Where on ACAS do we claim regarding this. Hearing some have received payouts already?

The first post in the thread has the information on the process to follow when dealing with ACAS. But you need to go through the Union first.

You can contact ACAS yourself if you wish but that would be outside this process and would be treated separately I guess.

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