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Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

23 Feb 2017, 16:24

norm wrote:Overtime above 39 hours isn't pensionable.


Perhaps I should have clarified that Norm? You are correct, I was referring to PTers fearing they were working a Full 39 hrs BUT only getting half the Pension Payments. Years ago in my ignorance I thought working PT would be better, Financially, as RM would pay any hours over my contract at the increased OT Rate. :shock: Oh how I laughed when it was explained it's standard pay UNTIL you've done over 39 Hrs! :dance

IMO the CWU should campaign for a better OT rate, say time & a half, I bet RM would quickly make up all these PTers that are regularly working FT hours and probably recruit more Posties to keep that OT bill down? :hmmmm By the way good deal on that move to actually cut the OT rate once you've done 10 hours! :arrrghhh

Well we can all dream. :cuppa

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

23 Feb 2017, 18:43

Dorset Plodder wrote: By the way good deal on that move to actually cut the OT rate once you've done 10 hours! :arrrghhh


Overtime costs jobs.
It would seem normal for a trade union to therefore discourage excessive overtime.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

23 Feb 2017, 20:25

On Tuesday all the Part Timers on our section ( 3 of them ) were told they couldn't come in and do their IP , and were to start at 0800 instead of 0630. Fair enough.

In the end we only had 2 people on sorting and it turned out to be a busy day. Didn't tie up until gone 9 and first letter about 0945 ( rural section long drive outs )

Manager wants us to lapse, we say no. Manager then Pays two Lads on a duty 3 hours each ( 6 Hours total at OT rate ) to take 3 loops.

So in the end hes saved 4.5 hours at standard rate by not having the Part timers in on IP but spent 6 hours at Overtime rate to cover the delay he's caused.

How does that make economic sense.

Then to finally take the biscuit he books the 2 lads OT ( 6 hours ) On Wednesdays sheet so it doesn't show on Tuesday. You really Couldn't make this shite Up.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

24 Feb 2017, 16:52

clashcityrocker wrote:
Dorset Plodder wrote: By the way good deal on that move to actually cut the OT rate once you've done 10 hours! :arrrghhh


Overtime costs jobs.
It would seem normal for a trade union to therefore discourage excessive overtime.


I understand the principle Clash but it's obviously not working. We Know RM rely on Posties doing vast amounts of OT, and nowadays it's actually costing jobs because RM don't bother recruiting. Every time a FTer leaves he's replaced by a PTer, and that PTer is probably going to end up doing quite a bit of OT as that FT duty doesn't magically shrink in size.

So surely we'd be better hitting them with their own shitty stick and make them pay the true cost of "expecting" everyone, especially the PTers, to work Over Time? :hmmmm I realise this is an academic argument, so I wont be holding my breath. :cuppa

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

24 Feb 2017, 17:07

Dorset Plodder wrote:
norm wrote:Overtime above 39 hours isn't pensionable.




IMO the CWU should campaign for a better OT rate, say time & a half, I bet RM would quickly make up all these PTers that are regularly working FT hours and probably recruit more Posties to keep that OT bill down? :hmmmm By the way good deal on that move to actually cut the OT rate once you've done 10 hours! :arrrghhh

Well we can all dream. :cuppa


i think thats a swell idea, lets hassle the cwu and see what fruit it may bear?

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

25 Feb 2017, 17:56

Its always appeared to me that they are trying to Kill Tuesdays and form an argument with the regulator to not have it on the USO.

Whether they are doing this by not resourcing the mail centres on the shift before a Tuesday delivery so theres no or very little traffic I don't know.
We have hardly anything on a Tuesday and then get hit with more DSA than we can clear without people going over on a Wednesday and Thrusday.

What really annoys me is the practice I outlined earlier. Were by managers are standing down Part Time staff on a Tuesday and then End up having to pay OT on the Tuesday, but the lads who do it , let the managers Book it on Wednesdays hours.

Surely this is playing into their hands when they present the figures to the regulator to argue that there is little / no service requirement for Tuesdays>
At the very least they are going to start Banking hours on those who finish early on Tuesday. And were do you think they ll want them back ( Saturdays )

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

25 Feb 2017, 20:00

The issue of part timers getting an increase in their contract whether that is full time or simply an increase in their contracted hours is not as simple as some think.

If a part timer is working above their contracted hours than Royal Mail will review the causes.

If there coming in before to do IPS and prep they they will look at the reasons is it due to the level of sick leave or VACs on the IPS ? And if those people on sick returned would the extra hours on IPS be required ?

Additionally if the double prep is not being done which the part timer is now coming into perform Royal Mail will look at reviewing an indoor plan.

Additionally a part timer who has been working above their contracted covering sick leave, absences due to annual leave or those on maternity will not get those hours recognised for an increase in contract as all of those on these absences have a right to return.

Where part timers have a good case is where's their own duty is resulting in an increase in hours due to the over running of their delivery or if there is no one to prep their walk or they have new delivery points on their walk. Even then in the first instance it is offered to the most senior part timer first.

Those part timers on reserve who regular cover full timers have an arguement too.

As someone who has reached an agreement to make over 100 part time to full time and another 50 an increase in contracted hours it is very difficult.

Why ? Well indoor work is reducing due to automation and the more Royal Mail make up too full time , the more they will have to pay out in VR costs with their strategy of having a mainly outdoor model !

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

25 Feb 2017, 22:51

Most of probably 75% of the Part Timers in our office are Floats or Reserves that cover Full time duties ( Mainly Park and Loop pairings ) and the expectation is on light days that the Full time ( usually driver ) Double preps and we loose bodies on IP.

Most of the 30 hour or Part time walks in the office have been lapsed, The duty holders have left / retired from those walks and they have simply never been replaced! the walks have been absorbed or lapsed.

As I Put earlier we probably have 10 full time Walks in our office which they simply have not filled the vacancies for. We lapse every day and the Docket book looks more like the duty sign in sheet most mornings.

Most people in the office ( except the part timers ) are happy because basically you can write your own ticket on overtime.

I understand from a business executive prospective that RM want to resource to work load, but why do we continually agree/ endorse practices that allow them to manipulate what the work load really looks like?

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

26 Feb 2017, 14:18

dingo wrote:The issue of part timers getting an increase in their contract whether that is full time or simply an increase in their contracted hours is not as simple as some think.

If a part timer is working above their contracted hours than Royal Mail will review the causes.

Is someone who has reached an agreement to make over 100 part time to full time and another 50 an increase in contracted hours it is very difficult.

Why ? Well indoor work is reducing due to automation and the more Royal Mail make up too full time , the more they will have to pay out in VR costs with their strategy of having a mainly outdoor model !


You benefit from having a better view of the "Big Picture" than the majority of us Dingo and thanks for your input. The comment highlighted probably causes more problems than most. We all know what should happen, but so often nothing does. :no no

It's not in Management's interest to review these over-sized duties (although I'd argue it is in reality), combine this with an in-experienced Postie and perhaps a lazy Unit Rep.....and nothing happens. In a perfect world/Delivery Office I'm sure these problems could be resolved but why do we seem to have so many comments suggesting the opposite? :hmmmm

I'd be interested to know where are all these "Over Manned" Delivery Offices where Posties need so much Indoor Work to fill their day? Are they the same DOs that have never heard of 6 hour Deliveries, which we are already doing? In my experience of RM, certainly over the last 8 years, Everytime a FTer has left they've been replaced by a PTer. How many of these DOs would now need massive redundancies if Indoor work decreased?

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

26 Feb 2017, 21:14

clashcityrocker wrote:
Dorset Plodder wrote: By the way good deal on that move to actually cut the OT rate once you've done 10 hours! :arrrghhh


Overtime costs jobs.
It would seem normal for a trade union to therefore discourage excessive overtime.



Unfortunately any employer will tell you OT even at premium rates (unlike RM) is cheaper than more employees on the books who will need a minimum NI contribution and other payments, effectively a tax on employees. That's the math and that's why much of the OT exists as well as operational needs.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

28 Feb 2017, 18:32

bustedflush wrote:Unfortunately any employer will tell you OT even at premium rates (unlike RM) is cheaper than more employees on the books who will need a minimum NI contribution and other payments, effectively a tax on employees. That's the math and that's why much of the OT exists as well as operational needs.


Don't know why they even bother to call it Over Time, the rate is pathetic. It's a sad fact that some Posties need to do so much OT to make ends meet. Granted there's a lot of Greedy Bastards as well. To those who rely on a lot of OT I've always advised, "Try and get it outside Royal Mail", the reason being: As soon as it suits them RM will cut that OT at zero notice and drop you in the shite! :sad:

I don't believe we need that much OT to cover "Operational Needs". Most of the OT in my DO is done quite regularly, week in, week out. The DOM admitted today that he couldn't run the office without people working their days off. Simple solution: Recruit the correct amount of staff. Like most Offices we're several staff light. :cuppa

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

28 Feb 2017, 21:11

Dorset Plodder wrote:
bustedflush wrote:Unfortunately any employer will tell you OT even at premium rates (unlike RM) is cheaper than more employees on the books who will need a minimum NI contribution and other payments, effectively a tax on employees. That's the math and that's why much of the OT exists as well as operational needs.


Don't know why they even bother to call it Over Time, the rate is pathetic. It's a sad fact that some Posties need to do so much OT to make ends meet. Granted there's a lot of Greedy Bastards as well. To those who rely on a lot of OT I've always advised, "Try and get it outside Royal Mail", the reason being: As soon as it suits them RM will cut that OT at zero notice and drop you in the shite! :sad:

I don't believe we need that much OT to cover "Operational Needs". Most of the OT in my DO is done quite regularly, week in, week out. The DOM admitted today that he couldn't run the office without people working their days off. Simple solution: Recruit the correct amount of staff. Like most Offices we're several staff light. :cuppa


with a retention rate of about 5% training staff that will leave after a few days/weeks is a big hinderance in RM plan, overtime rate needs to be doubled as those in the job need to be rewarded for the strenuous amounts of work we do that physically kills postmen/women.

rm cant even recruit staff fast enough to fill the gaps in the business

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

28 Feb 2017, 21:38

No way, is that the rentention rate of new staff 5% ! Appalling

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

02 Mar 2017, 10:56

South_London_Postie wrote:No way, is that the retention rate of new staff 5% ! Appalling


Must be some DOs that are REALLY Bad! Mine's not that bad we tend to hang on to new Starters. Haven't heard that old DOM speech about, "There's thousands of people out there looking for a job....You lot are lucky to have one"! for quite a while now. And as there's not going to be thousands of immigrants looking for a job anymore either perhaps RM should just get their act together, stop trying to Bullshit everyone, and sort their correct manning levels out? :hmmmm

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