not on facebook
ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (UPDATED 2017)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : NEW CORONAVIRUS FORUM... HERE



Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

30 Jan 2017, 21:28

any news regarding this?

also any letter templates we could freely pass onto members that wish to do the same?

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

30 Jan 2017, 23:22

lightningpostman wrote:any news regarding this?

also any letter templates we could freely pass onto members that wish to do the same?


Nothing from the union. I'll have a dig for my original.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

31 Jan 2017, 17:30

I had a chat with the DOM about this this morning. He told me that Royal Mail are exempt from that! So RM above the law? I'll try the rep next. I am surprised we have to do the donkey work. My husband does agency work and it's done automatically. :roll:

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 00:09

bettyflo16 wrote:I had a chat with the DOM about this this morning. He told me that Royal Mail are exempt from that! So RM above the law? I'll try the rep next. I am surprised we have to do the donkey work. My husband does agency work and it's done automatically. :roll:


They like to think they are but they're not

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 12:53

The actual ruling that brought this in made a distinction between voluntary overtime and compulsory overtime. Technically, all OT we do is voluntary, but like I said, if you're working a job that can only be completed through overtime, then it falls somewhere between the two and I'd say more towards compulsory.[/quote]

The case in Northern Ireland http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/holida ... -overtime/ did centre around Voluntary Overtime , whilst not binding in England its hard to see how any there would be any different outcome.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 20:03

Was partime for 13 years worked a s**t load of overtime most weeks But come holiday time just got a basic wage A long shot but could this be back dated along shot i know

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 21:31

The issue is as been pointed to the difference between compulsory overtime and voluntary overtime.

On compulsory overtime like scheduled attendance Royal Mail already pay holiday pay.

On voluntary overtime and remember overtime is deemed as voluntary than Royal Mail along with other employers are refusing to pay holiday pay.

This is why there are court cases which are still awaiting judgement especially for part timers who lose out when on leave.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 22:19

It doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't.

Put a grievance in and speak to acas. Put pressure on the business. Get every part timer in your office to put one in!! I did it at my office and 19 people since have been made up.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

01 Feb 2017, 22:35

There is a difference in making people up with increases in contracts and getting holiday pay. In London we have made over 90 part time to full time and 60 have had increases in their contract. We have not needed a grievance we have used the Agenda for Growth the IR framework and collective strength.

However the thread was about holiday pay for part timers who have been working above their contracted hours.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

02 Feb 2017, 10:26

The response given to me by Acas was that if it is voluntary overtime (which I imagine it always is in RM) then you aren't entitled to the extra pay.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

25 Feb 2018, 14:25

The employment tribunal ruled in August all employees are now eligible to holiday pay based on any type of overtime worked.

https://home.kpmg.com/uk/en/home/insigh ... y-pay.html

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

25 Feb 2018, 14:29

In the latest instalment of a long series of holiday pay cases, the EAT has increased the scope of what pay components must be included in statutory holiday pay calculations to now include regular voluntary overtime payments.

While this case is good news for workers who regularly work voluntary overtime, this will present an additional cost and operational burden for some employers.

What’s the issue?
Employees and workers have a right to be paid for their statutory holiday pay. There has been considerable uncertainty as to how that holiday pay should be calculated. Both UK and European case law has been evolving and while that evolution has been in favour of employees and workers, it has nevertheless lead to significant uncertainty.

To date, case law has established that contractual overtime, non-guaranteed overtime and commission, must be included in the holiday pay calculation. It was only a matter of time before the Courts also considered the treatment of voluntary overtime.

What does the EAT’s decision say?
In Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council v Willetts and others, the EAT held that where regular payments for voluntary overtime are made to workers, these have to be taken into account in calculating those workers’ holiday pay. This is on the basis that holiday pay must correspond to ‘normal remuneration’ so that it does not discourage workers from taking leave.

So, what is ‘normal’? For a payment to count as ‘normal’, the EAT says that it must be paid over a sufficient period of time (which will be a fact specific consideration). A further decisive (but not exclusive) factor in considering what is ‘normal’, is whether there is an intrinsic link between the payment and the performance of tasks required under the contract.

Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council employed a number of tradesmen ("Claimants") on fixed contractual working hours who also worked additional voluntary overtime. They also volunteered to be placed on a standby and call out rota for out-of-hours emergency work. The Claimants were paid for their voluntary overtime, voluntary standby and call out time as well as receiving a mileage allowance.

Holiday pay was calculated based on contractual hours only. The Council excluded voluntary overtime, standby and call out payments and the mileage allowance from the calculation. The Claimants argued that these additional sums should have been included in their holiday pay.

On appeal from the Employment Tribunal, the EAT decided that the payments for voluntary overtime (as well as call-out, standby and mileage) were made with such sufficient regularity for them to fall within the definition of ‘normal remuneration’.

As such, the EAT concluded they should be included in holiday pay calculation for the 20 days of annual leave arising under the Working Time Directive (but not the additional days provided under the UK Working Time Regulations 1998 or any additional contractual entitlement).

What next for employers?
What this now means for employers is that payment for voluntary duties, such as voluntary overtime, standby, call-out work and travel-time, linked to that work, may need to be included in the calculations of workers' holiday pay, where it is paid so regularly it amounts to ‘normal pay’.

However, unlike the decisions on contractual and guaranteed overtime and commission, the additional complication for employers is that it is less likely to be clear cut whether discretionary overtime is paid so ‘regularly’ it needs to be included in holiday pay calculations. Where there is a degree of interpretation needed, it is likely that differences of opinion as to what exactly needs to be included will arise.

The EAT has helped in stating its decision is clear that purely ad hoc or irregular overtime does not need to be included. That is unsurprising and unlikely to give rise to much debate. It also says that it considers this decision only represents a small extension of the principles already established in relation to contractual and non-guaranteed overtime, as well as commission. That is much more debatable.

The net result is that Employment Tribunals will inevitably continue to hear arguments about whether overtime (of whatever nature) has become part of an employee's normal pay. Employers should take steps now to review all their overtime arrangements and prepare a strategy to deal with any historic risks and look ahead to mitigate future liabilities.

Finally, it is worth noting the position remains that employees who have a break of more than 3 months between underpayments of holiday pay, will not be able to (successfully) argue they have suffered a series of unlawful deductions. Also that any claims for a series of deductions can only go back two years from the last deduction. This may mitigate the risk and potential cost arising from this decision.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

26 Feb 2018, 21:03

So if Royal Mail ever concede to holiday pay based on hours worked rather than contract hours, then only holidays in the prior 3 months can be claimed for? :arrrghhh

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

26 Feb 2018, 21:26

scoobymunster wrote:So if Royal Mail ever concede to holiday pay based on hours worked rather than contract hours, then only holidays in the prior 3 months can be claimed for? :arrrghhh


You can claim for them now. f**k voluntary overtime.
If my contract hours finish at 3 but workload will take it to 4, and an at risk of being sacked for bringing work back that’s not voluntary overtime

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

26 Feb 2018, 21:59

If you have a 25 hour contract but have been working 30 hours for the last three months does that mean you should get 30 hours holiday pay because a guy who i work with has been told by the manager that as he is a 25 hour contract he only gets 25 hours holiday pay?

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

26 Feb 2018, 22:09

If it’s regular enough then you can put a claim in. Royal Mail have hundreds if not thousands of claims against them.
They’ve robbed everyone off saying they don’t have to pay until they’re forced to basically.

What we did in my office.....

1. All part timers worked contract hours only on wednesdays and Thursdays.

18 people were made up within a month

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

26 Feb 2018, 22:34

Creditshampoo wrote:If it’s regular enough then you can put a claim in. Royal Mail have hundreds if not thousands of claims against them.
They’ve robbed everyone off saying they don’t have to pay until they’re forced to basically.

What we did in my office.....

1. All part timers worked contract hours only on wednesdays and Thursdays.

18 people were made up within a month


Now that what i call team work well done for sticking together.

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

27 Feb 2018, 15:54

Has anyone on here had any luck with an individual claim?

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

23 Apr 2018, 08:59

Scrutts wrote:The employment tribunal ruled in August all employees are now eligible to holiday pay based on any type of overtime worked.

https://home.kpmg.com/uk/en/home/insigh ... y-pay.html

Holiday Pay to Reflect actual hours worked *READ HERE*

23 Apr 2018, 13:10

[
Last edited by 97gaz on 14 Dec 2019, 16:17, edited 1 time in total.

Previous page Next page


Page 2 of 3   1, 2, 3