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What would it take for a YES vote?

09 Feb 2018, 12:18

For me, pay rises would have to be in line with inflation, anything less is a pay cut. On further reflection CPIH for the last 10 months averages at 2.43%, so the current proposal of 2.5% for 2017-2018 would actually be a reasonable offer if it was backdated to April and not October to give people what they're truly owed. This would mean 2.5% for 2018-2019 would probably also be a reasonable rise. However, 2% for 2019-2020? If inflation was 2% at this point fair enough, but for a company that's making millions in profit, why should its employees be taking a pay cut?

How about everyone with 1+ years service goes into the DBCBS scheme with a 13.6% employer and 6% employee contribution pending the outcome of the new CDC scheme? Wouldn't this be fairer for all? Ending the 2 tier pension and giving RM more incentive to make sure it definitely happens?

Holiday and sick pay averaged over the hours worked in a year regardless of whether overtime was voluntary or not. This would introduce equal pay for all and give offices no reason not to increase contracts in line with actual hours worked.

SWW only to be introduced when automation actually has an affect on the indoor workload. Without this there will only be more pressure on outdoor workers to deliver the same workload in less time. Where's the sense in this?

The end of threats of 'Wilful Delay' if your not willing to work over your time, I've not been here long, but this seems to be where most of the B&H issues stem from. I've never known a company that invokes this much fear into its colleagues through the use of a system that could mean instant dismissal for their own failure to put a system in place that can predict how long each delivery will take based on real time volumes. The whole overrunning procedure should be overhauled, the countless times I've heard people arguing with the DOM that they've not got time, only for the 10 minute argument to take more time. The thing is, nobody can accurately predict how long a walk will take (another thing that needs looked at), if you haven't got time you should be allowed to bring it back without harassment over the phone an hour before you return with no fear of the outcome the next day.

How about a system where everything is scanned onto the van as it's loaded, and scanned off the van when delivered, there's loads of companies that use this method already, why don't RM? This would also be hugely beneficial if they're introducing separate parcel duties which it looks like they are based on the agreement, if all the parcels are already logged on the pda, the most economical route can be mapped and your next delivery is preloaded onto the pda's gps. This would give as accurate as possible indication of how long it will take to deliver these parcels, add that to your average walk time and bingo.

This one will be highly controversial with a lot of people, but how about an active data capture of hours worked in every office. Ie, a clocking/swiping in machine, if I'm correct, the wording in the agreement makes it look like these are going to be trialled and introduced anyway. If they want a true reflection of hours worked and all hours paid for worked then it's the sensible way to do it. For us, this could end the "payment errors" in every office and we could actually be paid correctly every week without chasing wages for weeks on end. But for RM they would make a fortune in savings with people going home early, however there should always be the option to work your contracted hours, regardless if this means staying on the premises when no work is available, I can guarantee you people will still go home early. This would also be beneficial to h&s as people would be more inclined to take their breaks rather than lose them.

Just my thoughts but all I'm looking for is fairness for all, no 2 or 3 tier system, what will it take for you to vote YES?

What would it take for a YES vote?

09 Feb 2018, 14:42

I certainly agree with you on most of this.

RM & CWU seem happy for a 2-tier workforce continuing as regards pensions and Part-timers holiday pay.

2% pay rise for 2019 is crazy when we have no idea what inflation will be for the next 14 months. The Bank of England's own prediction is for 2% around 2021.

SWW for full-timers will mean LWW for part-timers.

Later starts/finishing - how many are reliant on finishing at a reasonable time for commitments outside of work?

Fed up with hearing that letter volumes are down when we seem to get more and more leaflets/brochures/catalogues plus parcels and packets are UP and these take longer to deliver.
Can see problems at xmas with more packets/parcels needing to be delivered in shorter time with later starts - I will NOT be finishing walk in the dark !

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 06:09

I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 19:06

koolishy67 wrote:I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.


So you are happy for recent/new starters to be getting 10% RM contributions for 5 years while others get 15.6% ?

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 21:39

The new starters will be auto enrolled onto the new equal pension after 12 months when it comes in. Only the current schemes have the inequality you keep posting.

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 21:47

mr hil. wrote:....when it comes in.


If

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 23:12

mr hil. wrote:.................Only the current schemes have the inequality you keep posting.


Ssshh, let's brush that one under the carpet, no-one will notice......

What would it take for a YES vote?

10 Feb 2018, 23:44

I wouldn't be surprised if the "interim" scheme is still in place when I am due to retire in 7 years time!

P.S. My STATE retirement age is 66, buggered if I am going to stay till I am 67.......looks like a "No" vote from me then!

What would it take for a YES vote?

11 Feb 2018, 17:47

JKSmudge wrote:
koolishy67 wrote:I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.


So you are happy for recent/new starters to be getting 10% RM contributions for 5 years while others get 15.6% ?


What makes you think that's going to happen? Unless of course you're referring to the current situation where everyone who started after April 2008 gets a different pension? Because AFAIK the proposal is that when the "defined ambition" scheme materialises everyone will be moved into it.

What would it take for a YES vote?

11 Feb 2018, 21:41

JKSmudge wrote:
koolishy67 wrote:I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.


So you are happy for recent/new starters to be getting 10% RM contributions for 5 years while others get 15.6%


Let’s me clear out of the 40 thousand in the current DC SCHEME over 20 thousand would move into the same transnational arrangements as everyone else. Additionally those who would remain in the DC scheme would see the top tier increase to 10%.

However we do need to communicate how important pensions are for those in the DC scheme as there are only 3500 paying the top contribution rate of 6% out of 40 thousand members of the DC scheme.

In terms of the Defined Ambition scheme a lot more progress has been made than most on here understand and I expect something positive within a matter of weeks.

Than we will all be in one scheme.

What would it take for a YES vote?

11 Feb 2018, 21:42

toomuchcoke wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:
koolishy67 wrote:I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.


So you are happy for recent/new starters to be getting 10% RM contributions for 5 years while others get 15.6% ?


What makes you think that's going to happen? Unless of course you're referring to the current situation where everyone who started after April 2008 gets a different pension? Because AFAIK the proposal is that when the "defined ambition" scheme materialises everyone will be moved into it.


I think JKSmudge has misread the agreement, (not surprising considering all the if's, but's and maybe's in it) until the time
that the new pension MIGHT be implemented there is a difference in RM's percentage
of wage contribution to the two transition schemes - some might say it's a case of divide and conquer.....at best it might be only be
for 12 months until we all get transferred - worse case it could be the length of a piece of string.......

What would it take for a YES vote?

11 Feb 2018, 21:56

dingo wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:
koolishy67 wrote:I am voting Yes this proposal is good for who ever start after 2008,and they know as well what's going on outside royal mail, I my self unemployed for a 6 months in 2008.


So you are happy for recent/new starters to be getting 10% RM contributions for 5 years while others get 15.6%


Let’s me clear out of the 40 thousand in the current DC SCHEME over 20 thousand would move into the same transnational arrangements as everyone else. Additionally those who would remain in the DC scheme would see the top tier increase to 10%.

However we do need to communicate how important pensions are for those in the DC scheme as there are only 3500 paying the top contribution rate of 6% out of 40 thousand members of the DC scheme.

In terms of the Defined Ambition scheme a lot more progress has been made than most on here understand and I expect something positive within a matter of weeks.

Than we will all be in one scheme.


But 20,000 won't be!!! A common pharase I saw on threads before the first ballot was that your pension is deferred wages - so 20000 could get 15.6% from RM but another 20000 will get 10%? Same work different 'wage'!!!!!!! We need to hear something concrete about the implementation of the new pension before the vote NOT in 12 months time waiting for a 'Steering Board', 'Scheme Design Group', 'Legal Group' and 'Lobbying Group' (see para 11) to be set up and make some progress.

What would it take for a YES vote?

12 Feb 2018, 00:52

ewancurze wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the "interim" scheme is still in place when I am due to retire in 7 years time!

P.S. My STATE retirement age is 66, buggered if I am going to stay till I am 67.......looks like a "No" vote from me then!

Probably will not be only ten years ago we all had one pension a final salary pension they the employer aswell as the govenment have conspired to undermine and end these schemes whilst they beinfit from them and the backhanders and the profits and dividens at the cost to us all any pension scheme will fold if all are not in the same scheme as others will seek better returns elsewhere!

What would it take for a YES vote?

12 Feb 2018, 06:07

Separate pension schemes will just divide the workforce, which is what RM ultimately wants as it reduces the union's power. We need to stand together and fight for new starters as much as anyone.

What would it take for a YES vote?

12 Feb 2018, 08:17

LouBarlow wrote:Separate pension schemes will just divide the workforce, which is what RM ultimately wants as it reduces the union's power. We need to stand together and fight for new starters as much as anyone.


But we have always had different pension schemes , when I started I was in the POSS scheme section b whereas a significant amount of fellow workers were in the civil service scheme, than in 1987 Royal Mail introduced the section c scheme POPS. Than when the final salary scheme was closed in 2008 individuals were forced to go into an unagreed scheme the DC scheme.

We are close to having for the first time in my 35 year Royal Mail career one pension scheme , the fact Royal Mail want it is opening doors up to and including Downing Street and I expect something within weeks not months.

In the interim we are up lifting individual who have done 5 years of which is over half of those in the current DC scheme.

Now let’s be clear I am doing members meetings in different delivery offices and doing one this morning , people who are in the DC scheme and POPS scheme need to understand that they will have to pay more pension contributions than they are currently under the new scheme as for POPs they will have to pay 6% on their first £3500 and for those in the DC they will have to pay 6% and only 5% current do so within the DC scheme.

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