ANNOUNCEMENT : ROYAL MAIL EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (UPDATED 2016)... HERE


What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 11:46

In our office people are talking about us losing the 'Defined Area' and 'Delivery' supplements - which is £33.81 a week in my case - are these Legacy Payments?

Thanks.


What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 11:52

Hitcher wrote:In our office people are talking about us losing the 'Defined Area' and 'Delivery' supplements - which is £33.81 a week in my case - are these Legacy Payments?

Thanks.


Delivery Supplement = No

Defined Area (RRIS) = Yes

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 12:11

They are payments that some long term posties are still getting despite the fact that the reasons or parameters for getting those allowances do not really exist or not justified.

In this present dispute, staff after 2008 have nothing to gain by going on strike. In fact, they have more to lose in the near or long term future.

RM will never be able to continue to pay us at such an inflated rate compared to the competitors. And the defined pension arrangements is always a tax on future generations. It is not just about RM alone but it is simply unaffordable, especially given the current and future economic climate and the longevity of retirees.

RM could easily scrap some of the legacy payments but instead they want to buy them out; basically they pay up front and stop the never ending payments for things like PHG (position does not even exist anymore) and recruitment and retention - that is not relevant anymore: more people want inferior part postal jobs than ever before.

This strike is all about the oldies - typical!

By way, the new pay offer states that RM wants to employ newer staff at a more inferior terms and condition (owner driver coming for this Xmas already). What is the Union going to do about it - nothing but talks and regrets.

We already a 3-tier or more workforce... But Union talks about fighting for a section of the workforce - what about those on Defined Contributions and other part timers on inferior terms???

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 12:17

The RMTV propaganda states that legacy payments are contractual so not easy to scrap. Also have any buy out figures been mentioned?
Net present value of £300 per year for 20 years (drivers allowance legacy payment) at 3% discount rate would be a lump sum of around £4500.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 12:34

chrisj wrote:They are payments that some long term posties are still getting despite the fact that the reasons or parameters for getting those allowances do not really exist or not justified.

In this present dispute, staff after 2008 have nothing to gain by going on strike. In fact, they have more to lose in the near or long term future.

RM will never be able to continue to pay us at such an inflated rate compared to the competitors. And the defined pension arrangements is always a tax on future generations. It is not just about RM alone but it is simply unaffordable, especially given the current and future economic climate and the longevity of retirees.

RM could easily scrap some of the legacy payments but instead they want to buy them out; basically they pay up front and stop the never ending payments for things like PHG (position does not even exist anymore) and recruitment and retention - that is not relevant anymore: more people want inferior part postal jobs than ever before.

This strike is all about the oldies - typical!

By way, the new pay offer states that RM wants to employ newer staff at a more inferior terms and condition (owner driver coming for this Xmas already). What is the Union going to do about it - nothing but talks and regrets.

We already a 3-tier or more workforce... But Union talks about fighting for a section of the workforce - what about those on Defined Contributions and other part timers on inferior terms???


Very misinformed! This is about everyone including those already in the DC pension scheme if you do a bit of research you will see the union wants us all to be in their new pension scheme so you actually have more to gain than anyone you class as an oldy!

There seems to be a handful of people posting these days who are more than happy to have their trousers pulled down by Royal Mail and thank them for doing so... You wouldn't be earning the money you do or getting any of the other benefits you do if the union/staff rolled over at every given opportunity! What you take for granted was not given willingly by Royal Mail it was fought for long before you or I worked here :arrrghhh

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 12:45

chrisj wrote:They are payments that some long term posties are still getting despite the fact that the reasons or parameters for getting those allowances do not really exist or not justified.

In this present dispute, staff after 2008 have nothing to gain by going on strike. In fact, they have more to lose in the near or long term future.

RM will never be able to continue to pay us at such an inflated rate compared to the competitors. And the defined pension arrangements is always a tax on future generations. It is not just about RM alone but it is simply unaffordable, especially given the current and future economic climate and the longevity of retirees.

RM could easily scrap some of the legacy payments but instead they want to buy them out; basically they pay up front and stop the never ending payments for things like PHG (position does not even exist anymore) and recruitment and retention - that is not relevant anymore: more people want inferior part postal jobs than ever before.

This strike is all about the oldies - typical!

By way, the new pay offer states that RM wants to employ newer staff at a more inferior terms and condition (owner driver coming for this Xmas already). What is the Union going to do about it - nothing but talks and regrets.

We already a 3-tier or more workforce... But Union talks about fighting for a section of the workforce - what about those on Defined Contributions and other part timers on inferior terms???



I learned long ago to look in depth into what I was going to comment on and not just be taken in by what I heard in the canteen or been spoon fed on propaganda TV.

Some of these guys who have the "Legacy payments" which you are willing to give up on their behalf are theirs by right as they endured all the changes placed upon them when major changes were forced through in 2000 and many many of them lost a lot of earnings.
To facilitate the changes that RM wanted, it was with the hard work and goodwill of these guys who had to stick to a strict set of agreed processes which included staying on duties, shifts etc.. to which RM put in writing that these legacy payments were in perpetuity.

These payments were written into their contract and to answer your quote that RM could easily remove these but instead will offer a buy out, this is wrong as you can't just change someone's contract without agreement as RM have admitted.

They are the guys who stand to lose a lot of income which they earned through the years, when they had to go through the changes imposed on them from the "Way Forward" agreement, which to reduce could be devastating to a fellow worker who has a mortgage taken out on their level of wages.

You stated correctly that in the latest pay offer that RM want to employ new staff on inferior terms and conditions but fail to realise that the union has already stated it's opposition to this and has rejected this proposal.

You then finish off asking what about the guys on DC pensions .... well if you haven't grasped that the union wants to abolish the different pensions and have a single Defined Benefit for all then you haven't been reading the literature from the union.

What about the changes to the working day, the latest letter delivery time, the later acceptance times and not to mention the walk ownership that covers everyone in he workforce?

If you genuinely believe that this fight is all about the oldies then I have lost faith in some ofthe workforce of today.
Last edited by Celtic Postman on 10 Sep 2017, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 13:24

The proposed buyout of the legacy payments has been "offered" at 18 months worth of payments paid in march next year. The proposal indicates that it will be an op out offer so unless you say, no I would like to keep my payments, you will automatically receive a lump sum and the weekly payments would stop.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 13:26

I knew I will be shut down... All that race to the bottom talk - this dispute is now about pensions. The CWU cannot bring back defined benefit scheme for those after 2008. We can strike everyday for 1 month, it will not happen. No no!

So I am not misinformed, if you are in a defined contribution, they can increase employer contributions or even lower your admin cost but you will never ever get final salary pension.

And final salary pension robs the future employees and it unfair. RM might be making a lot of income presently but bigger companies have failed due to costs and so on.

Let's stop fixating on RM of the past or the salaries or bonuses of CEO and bosses. Is your pay and condition good for the job you are doing - YES, it from me. Will I like more, yes, but I know I am doing fine and not greedy.

I shall like to see examples of legacy payments specifically written into contracts!

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 13:55

chrisj wrote:I knew I will be shut down... All that race to the bottom talk - this dispute is now about pensions. The CWU cannot bring back defined benefit scheme for those after 2008. We can strike everyday for 1 month, it will not happen. No no!

So I am not misinformed, if you are in a defined contribution, they can increase employer contributions or even lower your admin cost but you will never ever get final salary pension.

And final salary pension robs the future employees and it unfair. RM might be making a lot of income presently but bigger companies have failed due to costs and so on.

Let's stop fixating on RM of the past or the salaries or bonuses of CEO and bosses. Is your pay and condition good for the job you are doing - YES, it from me. Will I like more, yes, but I know I am doing fine and not greedy.

I shall like to see examples of legacy payments specifically written into contracts!


Here we go again.... The Final salary pension is finished so therefor robs no-one.
It was changed into the defined benefit pension with the Govt taking on the liabilities to allow for the privatisation of RM.

How do you propose I can show you examples of the legacy payments written into contracts ..... Do you get a printed new contract everytime you get a payment or anything consolidated into your pay?
I'll answer it for you ... No you don't the Union gets the master copy.

It's no use me trying to explain to you if you won't take the time to look up the union literature and take the proper wording and explanation instead of just hearsay.
Last edited by Celtic Postman on 10 Sep 2017, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 14:18

chrisj wrote:I knew I will be shut down... All that race to the bottom talk - this dispute is now about pensions. The CWU cannot bring back defined benefit scheme for those after 2008. We can strike everyday for 1 month, it will not happen. No no!

So I am not misinformed, if you are in a defined contribution, they can increase employer contributions or even lower your admin cost but you will never ever get final salary pension.

And final salary pension robs the future employees and it unfair. RM might be making a lot of income presently but bigger companies have failed due to costs and so on.

Let's stop fixating on RM of the past or the salaries or bonuses of CEO and bosses. Is your pay and condition good for the job you are doing - YES, it from me. Will I like more, yes, but I know I am doing fine and not greedy.

I shall like to see examples of legacy payments specifically written into contracts!



It always was about pensions most of the other stuff is a smoke screen to slip it through without too much fuss

What a load of rubbish final salary robs future employees!

There are many articles stating that big business is choosing not to provide decent pensions purely to increase profits,dividends etc basically sh#tting on the working class where as companies originally wanted to reward staff for a lifetimes loyalty!

If you're happy to retire on a annual pension of £2.50 a week then fair play but most of us are not!

If the whole world moves to defined contribution then the rate for both employee and employer need to go up massively but then you will get people who say I can't afford it but spend £50 a week on take always,£50 a month on a rotten Apple 12 phone or spend a £100 a weekend in the pub :crazy:

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 15:04

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
Hitcher wrote:In our office people are talking about us losing the 'Defined Area' and 'Delivery' supplements - which is £33.81 a week in my case - are these Legacy Payments?

Thanks.


Delivery Supplement = No

Defined Area (RRIS) = Yes

Thanks.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 15:06

B - Removal of old outdated legacy payments
2000 Driver’s allowance
2000 PHG allowance
PBS / ICS bonus
Time bonus
Road Network Scheme
2007 early shift protection
2007 Way Forward protection
LA1 Supplement
Pay Protection
Network 2007
Reserved Rights Night shift (both higher PHG rate & protected pensionability)
LGV allowance

Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay, pensions and change strategy negotiations slides in pdf format

Just a quick reminder of the rules while I'm here...
RULES wrote:If someone has a different position to you please respect their right to have differing views, and enjoy yourself when picking holes in their position in a constructive way. We would much rather have a long winded well thought out argument, picking out weak points in someone's position, than have a thread full of 1 line insults.

Please do not in any circumstances resort to name calling or behaviour that could be deemed as bullying or harassment. Specifically, regarding the term 'scab'. It does have an historical meaning in some circles, but it can also be seen as abuse by others. Therefore members are requested to use the more acceptable term of 'Strike Breaker'

Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned. This also applies to posts that are not aimed at individuals but at groups.


Topic moved to the new forum so everything is in one place. Latest news and discussion on the 2017 talks.

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 15:26

ChrisJ be careful what you wish for.
If you think RM should just remove legacy payments with no financial compensation (illegal), what allowances do you get that could similarly be removed ? Shift allowance? Delivery supplement? London Weighting?
We don't work for a non-Union employer, thank god !

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 16:21

POSTMAN wrote:
B - Removal of old outdated legacy payments
2000 Driver’s allowance
2000 PHG allowance
PBS / ICS bonus
Time bonus
Road Network Scheme
2007 early shift protection
2007 Way Forward protection
LA1 Supplement
Pay Protection
Network 2007
Reserved Rights Night shift (both higher PHG rate & protected pensionability)
LGV allowance

Now I'm confused! So it doesn't include Defined Area (RRIS)?

What exactly are 'Legacy Payments'?

10 Sep 2017, 16:59

I've been on delivery for 20 years and don't get any of these payments only the one they replaced for the leaflets

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