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Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

15 Sep 2020, 21:50

Capitalism ??? Doesn't exist . Not in the true sense. Tax payer bail outs. Too big to fail . Central Banks producing money out of thin air. Big Government interfering in every aspect of live. It's corporate cronyism but not capitalism. I think you confuse Capitalism with greed . But greed is everywhere .Don't you think the rulers of Venezuela , North Korea , China , Russia aren't greedy ? Greed is part of human nature. You have virtue signalling Lewis Hamilton flogging BLM for all it's worth , but is then sailing in private yachts with Philip Green living every bit of the millionaire lifestyle. If he really cares why hasn't he gave up 95% of his earnings to the less well off and still live a grand life ???? Greed. Lineker is another gobshite. I'm amazed people don't understand this.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

16 Sep 2020, 05:49

Wullie10 wrote:Capitalism ??? Doesn't exist . Not in the true sense. Tax payer bail outs. Too big to fail . Central Banks producing money out of thin air. Big Government interfering in every aspect of live. It's corporate cronyism but not capitalism. I think you confuse Capitalism with greed .


Thank you!

At least someone seems to understand that we have Corporatism and not Free Market Capitalism, and the govt are nothing but the puppets of the corps and the banks and the hedge funds who are running the show.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

19 Sep 2020, 16:51

wacko74 wrote:
Wullie10 wrote:Capitalism ??? Doesn't exist . Not in the true sense. Tax payer bail outs. Too big to fail . Central Banks producing money out of thin air. Big Government interfering in every aspect of live. It's corporate cronyism but not capitalism. I think you confuse Capitalism with greed .


Thank you!

At least someone seems to understand that we have Corporatism and not Free Market Capitalism, and the govt are nothing but the puppets of the corps and the banks and the hedge funds who are running the show.

And if you look a bit bigger picture the Conglomerates and Globalists and Dictators who are propped up by these organizations even in so called democratic nations!

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

20 Sep 2020, 16:03

Well this is why testing for coronavirus is not working it is the private testing labs that the more you pay your a priority here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... stars.html Is this the future for the NHS as it is being rundown so the US heath providers get us all to pay for health insurance!

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

20 Sep 2020, 20:48

barcajr wrote:even the Communist Chinese now have a capitalist economy

I've been meaning to raise a point about this comment for a few days now, but I've been too busy cleaning up the streets in my neighborhood of all the waste and trash scattered about by all the capitalist pigs who've been shopping their greedy hearts out.

So anyway, let's dive in.

The People's Republic of China is lead by the Communist Party of China (the CPC). Part of its state control makeup is the powerful National People's Congress (the NPC), who elects China's head of state: the President & General Secretary of the Communist Party (currently Xi Jinping).

Political freedom, censorship, and the dissemination of information is still controled by the state.

As far as China now having a capitalist economy, that's not exactly true. It's more nuanced than that.

In 1978, two years after Chairman Mao Zedong's death and the arrest of the Gang of Four, China enacted economic reforms that replaced the Soviet-styled, centrally-controled economic model that included state ownership. The new reforms introduced by CPC's reformists (and led by the Chairman of the Central Advisory Commission, Deng Xiaoping) created a socialist market economy and an opening up to the West. This change was part of China's period in history known as Boluan Fanzheng.

Not all the reforms stayed in place. A lot of them were rolled back by the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China, Hu Jintao, in 2005.

And in 2012, Xi Jinping increased control over state-owned industries and private enterprises. Corporate management is back under strong Communist Party influence, and there are many in China who believe that the Chinese economic reform will roll back to the style of 1960s in what is termed as "internal circulation" (or Communist Party influence within market enterprises).

And so while China is regarded as a socialist market economy, its long-term plan is to continue its goal of a socialist society with what is known as Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era; a type of Marxist-Leninist philosophy specically adapted to the People's Republic of China.

All the more frightening when one considers the fact that China has recently surpassed the United States as having the world's largest navy. :shock:
Last edited by PostmanBitesDog on 20 Sep 2020, 23:39, edited 1 time in total.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

20 Sep 2020, 20:56

As much as people are decrying socialism on here, your workers' rights, union rights, holiday entitlement, sick pay, employee benefits etc are all a branch of socialism that you all practice in.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

21 Sep 2020, 07:56

xPandabear1992x wrote:As much as people are decrying socialism on here, your workers' rights, union rights, holiday entitlement, sick pay, employee benefits etc are all a branch of socialism that you all practice in.

And the NHS, education and state pension.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

21 Sep 2020, 08:46

As the UK has never had a socialist government, it's difficult to see how "socialism" led to the NHS, pensions, education, workers' rights etc etc.
A strong progressive Labour Party allied to a large and cohesive union membership were the real drivers for such social change.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

22 Sep 2020, 22:44

Tman wrote:As the UK has never had a socialist government, it's difficult to see how "socialism" led to the NHS, pensions, education, workers' rights etc etc.
A strong progressive Labour Party allied to a large and cohesive union membership were the real drivers for such social change.

Well in 1948 they came close to it but even before then some individuals who operated mill's made the welfare of their staff schools and Doctors practices and even housing by paying rent's and pensions available for their workers. while others screwed every penny out of the workers and even turned guns on them or repressed them with the army of the day or police force that they paid for private armies for want of a better word. Earning money by creating wealth and taking a cut is not immoral but when it is used as a weapon against those who created that wealth by repression or the erosion of those benefits which were entrusted and handed down is certainly is immoral and is now widespread with it's dog eat dog mantra. Yet extoling the values of if we don't spend £10 million on this CEO we are only getting second best or he will not be motivated well what is good for the goose is good for the gander well we don't all get gold plated pensions anymore un less you happen to work in local government as a head of department or a university Don or PM.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

11 Oct 2020, 00:55

I can see in the next 50 years we will all have a living wage to get by on and anything extra will be taxed to hell and the police will hit tax evaders like a military operation!

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

17 Oct 2020, 17:12

Good god us posties are a smart bunch. This is a good thing about the job, we can listen to audiobooks and educate ourselves while we work. Honestly it's the only reason I haven't quit.

I agree with the other points made, that we don't truly have capitalism we have an oligarchy/corporatist system. The real problem is how all pervasive it has become in society. I had hoped that lockdown would make people think about what truly matters in life, but all it has done has accelerated consumerism. We live in a world with finite resources, this simply cannot continue forever and is the inherent failure built within capitalism - infinite growth cannot be achieved on a planet with finite resources.

People are incredibly removed from the machinations of consumerism. Imagine if every single person had to spend one week working at every single facet of them getting their iPhone? One week mining cobalt in the Congo with a gun in your back, one week in the factory in China with coworkers lobbing themselves out of windows, right down to having to drive the trucks and deliver the things. Would they still want them?

Or another idea, if you want to buy something on amazon, you click to register your interest but have to come back 24 hours later to actually be able to purchase it. Would people still buy as much stuff?

Food for thought

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

17 Oct 2020, 19:13

Postmandan17 wrote:
People are incredibly removed from the machinations of consumerism. Imagine if every single person had to spend one week working at every single facet of them getting their iPhone? One week mining cobalt in the Congo with a gun in your back, one week in the factory in China with coworkers lobbing themselves out of windows, right down to having to drive the trucks and deliver the things. Would they still want them?


Presumably many of the poor unfortunates you mention would have (or do have) a phone so that's a false perspective.
I wouldn't want to be a farm or abbatoir worker but I'd still like to eat.

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

17 Oct 2020, 19:34

Postmandan17 wrote:Good god us posties are a smart bunch. This is a good thing about the job, we can listen to audiobooks and educate ourselves while we work. Honestly it's the only reason I haven't quit.

I agree with the other points made, that we don't truly have capitalism we have an oligarchy/corporatist system. The real problem is how all pervasive it has become in society. I had hoped that lockdown would make people think about what truly matters in life, but all it has done has accelerated consumerism. We live in a world with finite resources, this simply cannot continue forever and is the inherent failure built within capitalism - infinite growth cannot be achieved on a planet with finite resources.

People are incredibly removed from the machinations of consumerism. Imagine if every single person had to spend one week working at every single facet of them getting their iPhone? One week mining cobalt in the Congo with a gun in your back, one week in the factory in China with coworkers lobbing themselves out of windows, right down to having to drive the trucks and deliver the things. Would they still want them?

Or another idea, if you want to buy something on amazon, you click to register your interest but have to come back 24 hours later to actually be able to purchase it. Would people still buy as much stuff?

Food for thought

Well indeed Boris want's us to become the Saudi Arabia of wind for that to happen we need massive amounts of rare earth metals which mostly come form China and will cost lot's in terms of emissions getting them out of the ground and also transporting them around the planet.
As you say " infinite growth cannot be achieved on a planet with finite resources " They now all are looking at a reduction of the human race by many factors such as birth control and even not treating people with illness by reason of COVID-19 but it is not just government using this crisis as adjunct to help our Paris agreements. All councils in the UK are now enforcing this by restricting traffic and parking spaces to force us all to walk or cycle or remain hermits in our homes, and by definition subjects of our location as in time you will not be permitted to travel even if you had the means of travel. But for the rich Capitalists who will have the means of travel permits and places to travel to it will not be a problem for them is like going to Barnard Castle for an eye test drive appointment!

Does Capitalism suck the life out of the nation?

18 Oct 2020, 18:47

Here is more light on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xw8tkDk5uY

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