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Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

16 Apr 2019, 23:05

Well, nothing was said tonight when I started my shift. A colleague had a word with the union rep who went to speak to the night shift manager. Apparently the night shift manager “would not entertain the idea” of Angard getting the same breaks as the RM staff - so if we are here 7 hours or more we will still only get 30 minutes break. The union will escalate it, but that’s the stance at our MC at the moment.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

17 Apr 2019, 07:31

Your post pretty much sums up working for Angard. It's ridiculous that two weeks after a complete change in the way breaks are paid we haven't been told what the new break allowance is. The only logical assumption (to Angard workers) is RM will adhere to AWR and we get the same breaks as RM staff but we are dealing with RM here. If you contact Angard asking for clarification you get told 'we don't know we're trying to find out'. RM managers have had an email regarding paid breaks but we don't know what's in it so makes it a bit difficult to argue your case if a local manager refuses a break. MC managers obviously don't want to give any more breaks than they have to, they are only interested in keeping their budgets down. At a national level I'd guess that with the hourly rate having been reduced RM are saving money by paying breaks as nobody gets anywhere near full time hours normally.

As usual when dealing with Angard nothing is easy as Reed are just an administrator for RM. It's no good telling me they will let me know what RM has implemented for breaks ASAP. A proper independent agency would know your employment agreements. It just proves yet again Angard is not fit for purpose and is purely a vehicle to keep zero hours staff technically not employed by RM. If there is no answer forthcoming then everybody should raise a grievance and potentially be willing to go down the tribunal route.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

17 Apr 2019, 09:37

tabact - you have summed it up entirely. One individual member of Angard staff raising the issue with a line manager (particularly night shift managers at our MC) would get nowhere. He/she would quickly find themselves passed over for shifts in favour of someone who wouldn’t make a fuss. And there are plenty Angard staff who appear to neither know nor care what their official Ts & Cs are as long as they have some beer money hit their account on Fridays. A joint grievance via the union rep is probably the way to go, but I would hate to be seen as the instigator. Angard staff are easily dispensable, and a local shift manager won’t care about the implications of a tribunal - they just want “feet in bull rings” saying “yes sir, no sir, three mailbags full sir”.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

17 Apr 2019, 10:25

I'm already out of favour with the managers so getting sod all work on my preferred shift at the moment and I got my break on the one I did work even if others didn't. I've been on both sides of the fence in various jobs and most employees will moan away about things but very few will actually do anything so as a manager you can normally get away with it. I'm sceptical to how much help you would get from the CWU as they are opposed to the use of casual staff and don't even acknowledge Angard exists the last time I looked on their website, try a search on angard 'no results'. Any grievance has to be raised with Angard first as they are officially our employer then progressed from there. I'll be surprised if RM aren't going to comply with AWR on breaks as they are leaving themselves wide open for future employment tribunals.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

18 Apr 2019, 11:59

Somewhere on this forum I have recently seen a table (or similar) outlining rest break entitlements for various shifts. Can anyone point me to that, or repost them?

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

18 Apr 2019, 13:22

rogersh wrote:Information is available at;
https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... t-2000.pdf

In May 2018 the agreement was cited “In the way forward agreement, we have commitments..... that will continue to be honoured" so is still valid.


It's section 5 of the pdf file you looked through the other day. There are local agreements in mail centres so talk to RM staff to confirm 100% what they officially get. Either way if paid breaks now and equal treatment under AWR we shouldn't get different breaks anymore but in the real world.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

18 Apr 2019, 14:33

Thanks tabact. It seems that in a standard nightshift (which seems to be 2230-0608 for RM guys, although they normally get away before 6) they receive 60 mins (the entitlement of 40 plus 20 mins grace). We only get 30 mins (but this is complicated by flexible finish times - it’s correct if we leave at 0500, but not if we finish later which often happens). It’s difficult to know how to address this - the other staff members I’ve spoken to have shown no interest in speaking out, and I don’t want to be seen as the only person making a fuss.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

18 Apr 2019, 15:08

Hopefully Angard will actually do their job for once and tell us what RM has instructed their managers to do in regards to breaks. I'm not arguing with RM managers over breaks. If they don't give me equal breaks it's down to Angard to sort out any problems for their employees. We know Angard just jump how high they are told to by RM but I'm going to pursue this all the way. I get virtually no shifts now so it doesn't matter if I piss them off.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

18 Apr 2019, 18:09

I have asked Angard numerous times for a simple table comprising length of shift and the paid break allowance for each length of shift.

This would be so easy to do but for some reason won't do it.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

24 Apr 2019, 00:21

Well, the response I received from Royal Mail management, via the CWU rep, is that we work for Angard so we need to take any grievance to them. RM don’t appear to be aware of any recent changes in procedure with regard to Angard (which seems hard to believe). Angard’s latest response is that local Royal Mail managers set the breaks. So we are being passed from pillar to post.

Surely the whole point of the exercise is to align Angard’s T&Cs with Royal Mail’s - ie. an Angard worker should receive the same break entitlement as a member of RM staff working the same shift and doing the same job. Why can’t Angard communicate that to Royal Mail, or why can’t senior Royal Mail managers communicate that to the shift managers?!

It’s stating to feel like the formal route is the only way to go to get this resolved. But at what cost?

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

24 Apr 2019, 07:06

I'm still trying to get a final answer out of Angard, slowly making progress, but I spoke to the late shift manager at my MC yesterday and all Angard staff on the late shift are now getting the same breaks as RM staff. This is after an initial 'I don't know anything about it' to 'I've looked into it and you now get the same breaks'. Everybody is getting a break on the 4 hour shift now including non AWR staff. It really is poor that so many managers intially or still are denying knowing about it. Do they just ignore emails they are sent that contain the word Angard in the subject, probably?

I did hit the problem of flexible end times to a shift and only got a 30 min break for an 8 hour shift due to it should have been only a 6 hour shift. There's not much you can really do with a variable finish time and as we tend to go over rather then get sent home early are more likely to hit this problem. It's swings and roundabouts as quite often they will round up the finish time to the nearest half hour so normally grab 10 minutes or so back anyway.

Lockardian wrote:Well, the response I received from Royal Mail management, via the CWU rep, is that we work for Angard so we need to take any grievance to them. RM don’t appear to be aware of any recent changes in procedure with regard to Angard (which seems hard to believe). Angard’s latest response is that local Royal Mail managers set the breaks. So we are being passed from pillar to post.


All you can do is keep on at Angard and remind them you work for them not RM so it's up to Angard to sort it out. All the indications I'm getting is that eventually it will be confirmed we get the same breaks but in the mean time individual managers at RM are using the lack of clarity we have been given to ignore it. It really is unacceptable that after a major change in our employment conditons on the 1st that 3 weeks later we are still waiting for clarification.

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

24 Apr 2019, 08:22

If you are non AWR then all your breaks are still unpaid

only AWR get paid breaks from the 1st april

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

24 Apr 2019, 08:38

2chorizon wrote:If you are non AWR then all your breaks are still unpaid

only AWR get paid breaks from the 1st april


Yes that is correct
:thumbup

Paid breaks from 1/4/2019

24 Apr 2019, 10:38

2chorizon wrote:If you are non AWR then all your breaks are still unpaid

only AWR get paid breaks from the 1st april


At my MC you've always been paid in full for a 4 hours shift regardless of whether a manager gave you a break or not, normally you didn't get a break though. I'll have to ask some new people if they are getting 20 minutes deducted now

Break Entitlements

03 May 2019, 04:39

I have been advised by Angard that they are well aware that numerous AWR casuals are not happy with their break allocations, ie. they are not receiving the same breaks as Royal Mail staff. Apparently it’s not as simple as Angard saying “you need to give the casuals the same amount of break as your staff” (even though, in my understanding, that’s exactly what they should be saying and RM have to adhere to it).

Allegedly there is to be a meeting next Wednesday between senior Angard managers and senior RM managers to attempt to reach an agreement regarding break entitlements for AWR staff - local agreements regarding “discretionary breaks” (extra breaks) for RM staff appears to be one complication that needs addressing, as is the fact that that both Angard and RM appear to think it’s the other company’s responsibility to sort the situation out!

I await the outcome of this meeting with interest, but little hope of a swift and effective resolution.

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