application unsuccessful due to security?!

[mcr88]

i've spent some time looking this up. i'm told this would appear on even the smallest checks. fines like mine are not spent for 5 years. hence why i admitted it.

i can't win!

[MinisterofCucumber]

I queried this with Liberty and got this reply:

"I understand that you are concerned about the Royal Mail Group’s (RMG) criminal record checking procedures. I have provided some information below on the Criminal Record Bureau and basic disclosure. I hope this information is useful.

Basic Disclosure

A basic disclosure is the lowest level of disclosure and can be requested by any employer. It contains details of convictions considered unspent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 or states that there are no such convictions. It is not job-specific or job-related and may be used more than once. A basic disclosure does not reveal cautions or spent convictions. Basic disclosure is obtained through Disclosure Scotland or Access NI and is not offered by the Criminal Records Bureau.

A basic disclosure is not generally issued to organisations directly, instead, it is made available on request to individuals. However please note that the RMG Security Checks Consent Form provides consent for the RMG to carry out a basic disclosure on an applicant’s behalf and the disclosure would therefore be sent directly to RMG.

Fixed Penalty Notices

In relation to fixed penalty notices, such as speeding or parking tickets, these are not issued by the court and would not be classed as a “Criminal Conviction”. Fixed penalty notices would therefore not need to be included in the RMG Security Checks Consent Form as a “criminal offence which is currently unspent”, however the wording of the form does not make this clear.

Police Cautions

In relation to police cautions, as you are aware simple cautions are spent as soon as they are issued and conditional cautions are spent after 3 months.

Therefore presuming that any cautions are spent, you would be entitled to answer “no” on the RMG Security Checks Consent Form, despite the wording of the question. RMG would only be able to request such information if they are exempt from the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.

There is guidance in this area provided by the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) which states:

“Information on criminal convictions should only be sought if it is relevant to the job being filled. Where appropriate questions should be designed to obtain no more than the information actually needed, e.g. ‘Do you have any criminal convictions in the last 5 years involving dishonesty?’ Whether by omission of an explanation or otherwise applicants should not be led to believe they have to disclose spent convictions if they do not.” (http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/ ... ion_1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I am afraid that Liberty would not be able contact RMG to ask them to alter their form. By way of explanation, Liberty is a small civil liberties organisation that focuses on bringing test cases with a view to challenging domestic law under the Human Rights Act 1998 or under European human rights law. We have limited resources and can only take up a very small portion of the requests we receive for help. Sadly this matter does not fall within our strict criteria.

You may wish to write to RMG yourself, possibly on an anonymous basis, highlighting how questions in their Security Checks Consent Form are out of line with the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (as amended by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008) and lead applicants to believe that they have to disclose spent convictions when they are not required to, which is contrary to ICO guidance.

Alternatively, you may wish to contact the Criminal Record Bureau to raise this issue (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/agencies-p ... -channels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

I hope you find the above information useful and I am sorry we cannot assist you further. I wish you all the best and thank you for contacting Liberty."

[MinisterofCucumber]

It looks like The Security Checks Form has been changed:

http://www.agencydrivers.co.uk/web_forms/#top" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, it has come too late to help people like mcr88 who were led to believe they had to disclose information they are not required to disclose.

[mcr88]

Thanks.

I am still a little confused though. I pleaded guilty in court and paid a fine of £80. I am told this conviction will remain unspent for another 5 years. Therefore I had to admit it anyway?

It would be much easier if angard and RMG treated people like humans and not pieces of paper.

[MinisterofCucumber]

You originally posted that you got a caution but now you say you were fined in court and your conviction is not spent. I hope this clears up your confusion:

"How out-of-court disposals work

When someone commits a minor crime, the police or CPS can decide to give them an out-of-court disposal instead of taking the case to court. The disposal can be a 'caution' or a 'penalty notice'.
Cautions and penalty notices are official warnings that your behaviour was not acceptable.
If you accept a caution you will be asked to sign a form that explains what a caution means and you will be given a copy of that form.
If you are given a penalty notice you will be asked to sign the penalty notice ticket to show that you have received it. You will then be given a copy of the ticket, which will explain what getting a penalty notice means. The ticket will also tell you how to pay the penalty and your rights to ask for a trial if you don’t pay.

When the police use cautions

Cautions are meant to be used for less serious crimes, for example low level criminal damage.
Cautions are given to adults 18 and over for less serious crimes. Young people, aged 10-17, can get cautions but they are called reprimands and warnings.
You have to agree that the police can caution you.

When the police use penalty notices

Penalty notices are used for smaller offences that would usually get a fine in court. For example:

theft from a shop

cannabis possession

being drunk and disorderly in public

You cannot choose whether or not to accept a penalty notice. If is for the police to decide if you should be given one. If you pay the penalty then you cannot get a criminal conviction for the offence listed on your penalty notice ticket. A penalty notice isn’t part of your criminal record, but it may be disclosed on a Criminal Records Bureau enhanced disclosure if it’s considered relevant."

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJustic ... /DG_196450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Saraleeds89]

My Partner is going through the same thing but he's never been in trouble with the police,he worked for them before but mental health got on top of him so he was advised to walk to sort it out. He was still in probation period so he did that then went to pertemps when he felt ready for work again. Now he's moved city he's tried re applying for royal mail but vetting are saying re apply in 3 years but he can't even get with pertemps again even though he worked for them after royal mail.