not on facebook
ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (UPDATED 2017)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : NEW CORONAVIRUS FORUM... HERE



How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 13:42

I have been at RM since 2000. I am confused as to how many pensions schemes I have paid into. The RMPP which is now finished. The RMSPS. Is this one finished? If so which scheme are we currently paying into?

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 14:56

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin! :thumbup

Anyone who joined RM before 31st March 1987 would have joined the Post Office Superannuation Scheme(POSSS) – that was later renamed section A/B of the Royal Mail Pension Plan(RMPP). Those who joined before 1 December 1971 being in section A and those between then and 31st March 1987, being in section B.

Anyone joining RM between 1st April 1987 and 31st March 2008 would have gone into the Post Office Pension Plan(POPS) – that was later renamed section C the RMPP.

I can't remember when the renaming took place, but I think it was in the late 90's or early 00's.

When RM was privatised, part of the deal was that the government took over the pension liabilities up to 31st March 2012 – that is called the Royal Mail Statutory Pension Scheme(RMSPS).

Everything accrued from 1st April 2012 to the present day is via the RMPP. Although we stopped building up any pension on 31st March 2018, since then we've just been building up a lump sum via the Defined Benefit Cash Balance Scheme(DBCBS) to take predominantly with our NRA65 benefits.

The benefits have accrued on a final salary basis up to 31st March 2008 and a Career Salary Defined Benefit(CSDB) basis from 1st April 2008 to 31st March 2018.

However benefits are paid out on a NRA60 & NRA65 basis, with NRA60 relating to service up to 31st March 2010 and therefore including all final salary benefits and the first two years of CSDB benefits.

NRA65 benefits are from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2018 and relate to the other 8 years of CSDB. Plus the DBCBS.

Section A & B members have the choice to pay Additional Voluntary Contributions(AVC's) via Flexiplan, while section C and F(see below) members can pay into both Flexiplan and Bonusplan. AVC's are administered by Scottish Widows and are usually used to boost your tax free lump sum.

If you are in either sections A, B or C then you'll probably currently be paying into the DBCBS, unless you opted out, in which case you might be paying into the Royal Mail Defined Contribution Plan via Scottish Widows(formerly Zurich).

If you joined RM sometime after 1st April 2008, the chances are you'll have joined the RMDCP, unless you opted out. And for anyone reaching 5 years in the RMDCP, you will be given the opportunity to pay into the DBCBS via section F of the RMPP.

I bet you wish you'd never asked. :hmmmm :cuppa

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 15:13

Wow. Is it any wonder why people take very little interest in something which is so important. You need a PhD in Nuclear Physics to understand the Royal Mail pension schemes. It's a good job RobertT is here to act as our "doctor".

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 16:12

RobertT wrote:Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin! :thumbup

Anyone who joined RM before 31st March 1987 would have joined the Post Office Superannuation Scheme(POSSS) – that was later renamed section A/B of the Royal Mail Pension Plan(RMPP). Those who joined before 1 December 1971 being in section A and those between then and 31st March 1987, being in section B.

Anyone joining RM between 1st April 1987 and 31st March 2008 would have gone into the Post Office Pension Plan(POPS) – that was later renamed section C the RMPP.

I can't remember when the renaming took place, but I think it was in the late 90's or early 00's.

When RM was privatised, part of the deal was that the government took over the pension liabilities up to 31st March 2012 – that is called the Royal Mail Statutory Pension Scheme(RMSPS).

Everything accrued from 1st April 2012 to the present day is via the RMPP. Although we stopped building up any pension on 31st March 2018, since then we've just been building up a lump sum via the Defined Benefit Cash Balance Scheme(DBCBS) to take predominantly with our NRA65 benefits.

The benefits have accrued on a final salary basis up to 31st March 2008 and a Career Salary Defined Benefit(CSDB) basis from 1st April 2008 to 31st March 2018.

However benefits are paid out on a NRA60 & NRA65 basis, with NRA60 relating to service up to 31st March 2010 and therefore including all final salary benefits and the first two years of CSDB benefits.

NRA65 benefits are from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2018 and relate to the other 8 years of CSDB. Plus the DBCBS.

Section A & B members have the choice to pay Additional Voluntary Contributions(AVC's) via Flexiplan, while section C and F(see below) members can pay into both Flexiplan and Bonusplan. AVC's are administered by Scottish Widows and are usually used to boost your tax free lump sum.

If you are in either sections A, B or C then you'll probably currently be paying into the DBCBS, unless you opted out, in which case you might be paying into the Royal Mail Defined Contribution Plan via Scottish Widows(formerly Zurich).

If you joined RM sometime after 1st April 2008, the chances are you'll have joined the RMDCP, unless you opted out. And for anyone reaching 5 years in the RMDCP, you will be given the opportunity to pay into the DBCBS via section F of the RMPP.

I bet you wish you'd never asked. :hmmmm :cuppa

Hi Robert, I was wondering if you have come across anything in writing that states that the DBCBS will be reduced i f you took your nras early. I know that we are all assuming it will be reduced in line with the reduction to the pensions for early redemption but I have not actually found anything in print that confirms it. I know Stephen500 has had an email and telephone conversation with one of the trustees and he only thought that it would be reduced but was unable to say by how much.......... it might just be me but I would have thought a trustee would be able to answer that but he couldn’t. I know the clue may be in the title of the fund..... Defined Benefit Cash Balance Scheme......emphasis on the Defined Benefit..... but effectively it is a pot of money similar to a Defined Contribution scheme....... as far as I am aware people do not have their pots reduced when taking their DC pensions early...... or do they? I don’t know because I’ve never had one. At the moment it doesn’t make much difference because it has only been running for just over 2 years but as time goes by it is going to mount up how much each person has in it. The chap Stephen was in correspondence with was pretty sure that the CDC pension would not be in operation before late 2021 at the earliest by which time some members (I’m thinking mainly of people in Section B on late or night shift) will have getting on for 18,000 to 20,000 in there pots..... it’s only just occurred to me as I am writing this that is the DBCBS not just another form of AVCs?..... it appears to be there to cover the same function, namely to fund the lump sums. I will be interested in your opinion Rob..... and anybody else if they have any thoughts on the matter.

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 16:34

The DBCBS is indeed basically the same as AVC's in as much as it's there to fund the tax free lump sum, specifically associated with benefits accrued between 2012 and 2018. If there is anything left after using it to fund the tax free cash, it will be paid as a taxable lump sum.

The RMPP website( https://www.royalmailpensionplan.co.uk/ ... ring-early) states:
After you’ve reached 55, your employer may allow you to choose early retirement.
If you do retire early, your benefits will be calculated based on what you have built up at the date of leaving. Your pension and lump sum (including your Cash Balance fund) will be reduced because they’re being paid early.

There is no mention of percentages.

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 17:01

Wow, thanks Rob for your comprehensive reply. It is so much clearer to me now but still murky. Not as a result of your answer but as a result of my denseness.

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 19:15

From memory of a phone call a few months ago to rmpp I'm pretty sure that I was told the cash balance scheme is reduced but by nothing like the 5% per year the other pensions are as it is a different type of scheme.
I'm pretty sure I was told it was reduced by a minimal amount, well below 1% of I recall?
I stand to be corrected of course.
I'm due to receive my figures for this current scheme in the next week so will update here soon as I have them.

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 19:50

Why would the DBCBS be reduced if its only a pot of money which you and RM have paid into.

Surely you just get offer the combined sum of what you have in the Kitty..ie what you have paid in ?

How many pension scheme?

21 May 2020, 22:37

Hawkey99 wrote:Why would the DBCBS be reduced if its only a pot of money which you and RM have paid into.

Surely you just get offer the combined sum of what you have in the Kitty..ie what you have paid in ?


Probably because it is a part of the NRA65 pension that closed in 2018. It just provides the lump sum element. The problem is that it might become more than 25% of the NRA65 pension, if it carries on into another year. The CDC scheme, if you like the new NRA67! scheme, has been delayed due to BREXIT, a dispute between RM and CWU and CV19. The CDC scheme will have its own lump sum.

How many pension scheme?

22 May 2020, 13:51

Thanks heapsy,

Thats the bit Im struggling with.

I understand the DBCBS is basically a lump sum to be paid along side our NRA60/NRA 65 but how can it be reduced if its and actual amount of money we have been paying in since the previous schemes closed.

Im sure there is a logical answer...I just can't see it.......

Talk about complicated.........

How many pension scheme?

22 May 2020, 18:20

It's only the same as your pension benefits. They get reduced by 5% per year when taken early, so your DBCBS might see a %age reduction too.

Although nobody seems to know if it actually is reduced and if so, by how much.

How many pension scheme?

23 May 2020, 20:08

RobertT wrote:It's only the same as your pension benefits. They get reduced by 5% per year when taken early, so your DBCBS might see a %age reduction too.

Although nobody seems to know if it actually is reduced and if so, by how much.

Hopefully it will be as TheStrangler stated on an earlier post on this thread .... less than 1% for each year you take the DBCBS early.
We will find out more when Stephen500 gets his quote in June (which is very good of him to share with us)..... Capita permitting of course.

How many pension scheme?

23 May 2020, 20:19

I took my NRA60 at 55 this January ( suited me in many ways to do this at the time). I had a quote of DBCBS maximum tax free lump sum of £1656 and a yearly pension of £249, last figures I had for monies built up in DBCBS was March 19 yearly pension statement which said a figure of £4540 . I’m not sure if these figures help answer questions about any reduction as I did not see on the quote a reduction percentage. I was told as I’m continuing payment to my NRA65 that part of my DBCBS will be payed out at 65 but I don’t know what’s currently left in the DBCBS based on today’s values ?

How many pension scheme?

25 May 2020, 14:51

RobertT wrote:Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin! :thumbup

Anyone who joined RM before 31st March 1987 would have joined the Post Office Superannuation Scheme(POSSS) – that was later renamed section A/B of the Royal Mail Pension Plan(RMPP). Those who joined before 1 December 1971 being in section A and those between then and 31st March 1987, being in section B.

Anyone joining RM between 1st April 1987 and 31st March 2008 would have gone into the Post Office Pension Plan(POPS) – that was later renamed section C the RMPP.

I can't remember when the renaming took place, but I think it was in the late 90's or early 00's.

When RM was privatised, part of the deal was that the government took over the pension liabilities up to 31st March 2012 – that is called the Royal Mail Statutory Pension Scheme(RMSPS).

Everything accrued from 1st April 2012 to the present day is via the RMPP. Although we stopped building up any pension on 31st March 2018, since then we've just been building up a lump sum via the Defined Benefit Cash Balance Scheme(DBCBS) to take predominantly with our NRA65 benefits.

The benefits have accrued on a final salary basis up to 31st March 2008 and a Career Salary Defined Benefit(CSDB) basis from 1st April 2008 to 31st March 2018.

However benefits are paid out on a NRA60 & NRA65 basis, with NRA60 relating to service up to 31st March 2010 and therefore including all final salary benefits and the first two years of CSDB benefits.

NRA65 benefits are from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2018 and relate to the other 8 years of CSDB. Plus the DBCBS.

Section A & B members have the choice to pay Additional Voluntary Contributions(AVC's) via Flexiplan, while section C and F(see below) members can pay into both Flexiplan and Bonusplan. AVC's are administered by Scottish Widows and are usually used to boost your tax free lump sum.

If you are in either sections A, B or C then you'll probably currently be paying into the DBCBS, unless you opted out, in which case you might be paying into the Royal Mail Defined Contribution Plan via Scottish Widows(formerly Zurich).

If you joined RM sometime after 1st April 2008, the chances are you'll have joined the RMDCP, unless you opted out. And for anyone reaching 5 years in the RMDCP, you will be given the opportunity to pay into the DBCBS via section F of the RMPP.

I bet you wish you'd never asked. :hmmmm :cuppa


Robert. I know you mentioned the CDC scheme, pre covid, might be implemented in September/October this year. This will be added to your comprehensive history. Do you think a delay to 2021 is now more realistic for the parliamentary approval & implementation of the CDC scheme.

How many pension scheme?

25 May 2020, 16:17

rogersh wrote:Robert. I know you mentioned the CDC scheme, pre covid, might be implemented in September/October this year. This will be added to your comprehensive history. Do you think a delay to 2021 is now more realistic for the parliamentary approval & implementation of the CDC scheme.

There were a few news articles earlier in the year stating the Pensions Bill which includes CDC, was going through the legislative process nicely and Royal Assent was expected later this year, after Parliaments summer recess. I think Terry Pullinger said it could be beforehand.
RM also say they want to bring it in 'as soon as possible'.

Covid-19 has got in the way of that process with normal Parliamentary business currently being suspended.
At the point of suspension, 3 of the 12 stages had been completed, and there's no date set for when stage 4 will begin. Details: https://services.parliament.uk/bills/20 ... hemes.html

So I don't think there's much chance of that Sept/Oct implementation now, and the longer the Covid-19 lockdown and social distancing continues, the longer we'll have to wait for a RM CDC scheme.

The first setback was 2019's Queens Speech being put back 6 months, then the general election followed by another Queens Speech, and now a global pandemic! I wonder what else might come along to get in the way? :hmmmm

How many pension scheme?

Today, 00:14

Lionel Sampson told Stephen500 that he didn’t expect the CDC pension to be in operation before the latter part of 2021..... if memory serves....... Hopefully Stephen can confirm this?

Previous page Next page


Page 1 of 1