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Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 03:27

Ok, be easy with me if i ask stupid questions, ive tried to find out this information but due to some of the terms used in googling its not helping me find the answers.
Havent cared about pensions before, so i know literally nothing but id like to understand just these few things.

I have a pension illustration (total benefits)
NRA 60
Pension 3100
supplement 600
Spouse pension 1500

sooo .... are these totals i get per year at 60 ? or one off payments ? whats spouse pension mean here ?

NRA 65
Pension 2500
supplement 500
Spouse Pension 1300

do i get this in addition to the age 60 one once i hit 65 ? or does it replace it ?

defined benefit cash balance 5300 .... what the hell is this ?

sorry for being a total noob

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 13:39

The first thing to understand is that your annual illustration is in the format of final salary pension and CSDB pension. They are not the same as NRA60 and NRA65.
Or have you got a quote from the pensions dept. which includes the figures in NRA60 & NRA65 format?

Final salary relates to service up to 31st March 2008, and CSDB from 1st April 2008 to 31st March 2018.
NRA60 relates to service up to 31st March 2010, and NRA65 from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2018.
Therefore your annual illustration figures for your NRA60 will be higher than you thought and the NRA65 will be lower.
Plus the Cash Balance(DBCBS) which provides a lump sum.

NRA = Normal Retirement Age, that is what you'll get in pension from that age until you die, increasing with inflation each year. So you will have both NRA60 & NRA65 pensions.
It is possible to take them earlier, but you'll face a 5% per year reduction before NRA.

You can also give up some pension to get a lump sum, in addition to the Cash Balance, up to 25% of your 'total pot value'. See page 12 of your member guide to benefits for more info.

You're in section C as you get a pension supplement. That is payable from when you take your RM pension until your state pension age. But only if you've left RM employment. The state pension is in addition to your RM pension and any other pensions you may have from previous jobs, etc.

The spouses pension will be paid to your husband/wife/partner from your death and until they die.

The Cash Balance(what you're paying into now) will provide a lump sum when taking your benefits.

More info can be found on the RMPP website:
Pay particular attention to the Library section( ... ts/library), where you'll find:

The members guide to benefits, which tells you how the scheme works;
The death nomination forms to make sure your spouse is named;
The flexible pension guide if you're thinking of taking your pension/s before NRA; and
The AVC guide if you want to contribute more.

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 14:53

thank you kindly for your help, this has been very useful !
I actually recently left the business and those were the closing figures that RM pensions sent, they specifically state NRA60 and NRA65 with the figures i listed. Am i right in thinking these figures are all "locked in" so if i do nothing else this is what i have accrued and will recieve ? I know these figures will also increase with inflation.

Im actually doing something with tax right now, and would like to know if my pension has an overall value, maybe this is the "pot value" you mentioned ? is there any way to find this out ? I dont have anything that mentions anything like this, all ive been given is how much i would recieve in pension.

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 15:33

Yes those figures are what you'll get, plus yearly inflationary increases.

The 'total pot value' is explained on page 12 of the member guide to benefits. Basically you take your yearly pension and multiply by 20 then add the cash balance.
In your case that sounds like it would be £139,300.

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 15:43

thank you is it the same as CETV value ? I just want to know what to ask for from Royal Mail Pensions to get something in writing that I can show.

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 16:02

A CETV can in theory be anything the pension scheme want it to be. Sometimes they use a higher multiple to encourage you to transfer out, therefore getting you off their books. But the x20 method is used if that's not the case.

However, it's important to realise that your RM pension is actually split into two:

The RM Statutory Pension Scheme – relates to pension accrued up to 31st March 2012, which is paid for by the government/taxpayer. Find out how to get a value here: ... y-benefits

The RM Pension Plan – relates to pension accrued after 1st April 2012, which is RM's responsibility.
CETV info here: ... erring-out

You'll have to get a CETV from both the RMSPS and RMPP.

Pension help

31 Jan 2020, 16:23

RobertT wrote:
You'll have to get a CETV from both the RMSPS and RMPP.

thanks i wouldnt have thought to do that on my own

Pension help

02 Feb 2020, 01:20

I don’t think you can get a CETV figure from any pension accrued from service that is Pre 2012 as there are no assets to back it up. The government has sold them and now has the liability of the pensions to be paid out of general government expenditure. :arrrghhh :arrrghhh

Pension help

02 Feb 2020, 01:35

Take a look at the link Robert provided.

Pension help

02 Feb 2020, 11:05

renrag40 wrote:I don’t think you can get a CETV figure from any pension accrued from service that is Pre 2012 as there are no assets to back it up. The government has sold them and now has the liability of the pensions to be paid out of general government expenditure. :arrrghhh :arrrghhh

Your RMSPS pension will still have a value and there are circumstances where that value will need to be known, such as:

A transfer from the RMSPS(pre 2012) to another DB pension scheme(you can't transfer to a DC scheme). See the RMSPS link in my previous post.

You're getting divorced with the value being split between the two parties. The lawyers will obviously need to know what it's worth.

Pension help

02 Feb 2020, 17:31

A colleague at work inquired into the transfer value of his RM pensions. Due to his family history (his mother and father both had final salary pensions but they both died within a combined 15 months of receiving their pensions. The value of both their pensions were then lost. He didn't want this to happen to his family.) he wanted control of the money so if he died it would pass on to his family. His mate, who had worked for ICI, had just “sold” his DB pension back to the pension provider for just over half a million....... so he thought...... I will have a bit of that!
When he got the paperwork, he couldn’t make head nor tail of it so he asked me to read through it. It gave a figure for what both pension pots were worth. But it clearly stated that due to the fact that there were no longer any assets backing the pre March 2012 accrued pensions you would not be able to transfer it out and take a cash equivalent. He was allowed to take a cash equivalent with pensions accrued from April 2012. He was not best pleased when I explained this to him. I had to read the relevant paragraphs out loud to him........ his response was not printable.
I could sympathise with what he wanted to do. He didn’t want to get the money and then blow it. He wanted to get it and have control of it. To use it as an inheritance for his family if anything happened to him. It was not an inconsiderable combined sum...... but not as good as working for ICI...... no surprise there then.

Pension help

02 Feb 2020, 18:03

The fact that you can't transfer as cash to a DC scheme is clearly communicated on the RMSPS website I linked to.

I assume the info about only being able to transfer to another DB scheme is also true, else why would it be on the website?

Pension help

04 Feb 2020, 01:12

He wanted specifically to gain complete control of the pension pot which I supposed would be classed as moving it to a DC scheme, whether that be a draw down or a SIPP. It clearly stated that the reason why he wasn’t allowed to do that was because there were no longer any assets to back the pensions with. The government had disposed of them. I’m sure they have cabinet office rules to make them dispose of these assets but it seems to me typically shorted sighted of our government...... would the Norwegian government have done the same or would they have transferred the assets to their state pension fund which has been built up from oil revenues from North Sea oil. Their pension fund controls approximately 1% of the worlds stocks and shares...... what’s our state pension backed with?..... oh, just a promise...... just like much of our RM pension it seems.

Pension help

13 Feb 2020, 10:11

I'm approaching the Big 60 so I've been looking at relevant posts with great interest. :thumbup I have been listening to Robert T's advice for some time, so just not leaving it until the last minute.

Phoned the Royal Mail Pensions Service Centre, just to remind them I'm getting Old :sad: , and they were pretty quick off the mark ... got the Estimate of Benefits the next day. :thumbup Although she did say it was in the process of being sent out in the next two weeks anyway ... she also said NOT to bother phoning Capita(?) at this point as they will require my reply to this intial letter before doing anything. So far so good. :thumbup

I was glad to see in this letter that they stressed the Importance of taking these benefits at 60 as they will not be backdated. That section in BOLD. So that will hopefully help Posties in two minds with what to do (as mentioned in another post).

Then it came to the Estimate of Pension Benefits ...... At first I thought, "We'll that's not bad a week on top of my wages" :dance Then I noticed it said "Annual Pension" :shock: After the intial surprise I did literally LOL :left:

Having read Robert T's helpful explanations of the breakdown of this confusing collection of different Pensions and who pays what I wasn't in too much of a flap. It only accounts for 6.5 years of my service (up to 31 Mar 2010) I'll wait to see what the second letter says. At least I know I've got enough to buy me and the Missus a Decent Meal out .... because at just over £40 that's about all it's going to do. :cuppa

Pension help

13 Feb 2020, 10:56

I would ring Capita if I was in your position. It took them 2 months to send me my RMSPS estimates after the PSC had sent the NRA60 order to them and I only received it then as I had to chase them. Also get used to the 2 pension administrators blaming each other for any delays. The whole process now is an absolute farce. Good luck.

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