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Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 17:22

Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.


:nana THANKYOU, a sensible person at last :nana

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 18:19

leolion855 wrote:
citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one


Typical scaremongering by the union, They are not going to dock for standing at a customers door for 2 minutes. If your having a half hour unauthorized break on the other hand..


I think that's what he was getting at, any dots more than say 5 minutes would be added up , if they are more than say your 20 minute meal relief that time would be classed as not worked, probably a load of rubbish but you never know. Amazon do the same sort of thing in their warehouses don't they? I'm sure I saw it mentioned that if they take too long in the toilet it gets flagged to a manger to be asked about or if they go too many times during a shift

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 19:41

leolion855 wrote:
Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.


:nana THANKYOU, a sensible person at last :nana

And if the manager does not authorise the o/t because you wasn't asked to come in early. Posties are not on flexi-time.
You will be expected to work to your finish time. (No dancing bananas here)

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 19:51

Rumple wrote:
leolion855 wrote:
Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.


:nana THANKYOU, a sensible person at last :nana

And if the manager does not authorise the o/t because you wasn't asked to come in early. Posties are not on flexi-time.
You will be expected to work to your finish time. (No dancing bananas here)


what about the 30min flex that we get asked to work?

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 19:53

Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.

Standard practice in many workplaces.

I also had a job where you were docked 30 mins pay if you left even a minute early. Same if you were late.

Like everything else at RM if you are doing things properly there won’t be anything to worry about.

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 20:04

Rumple wrote:
leolion855 wrote:
Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.


:nana THANKYOU, a sensible person at last :nana

And if the manager does not authorise the o/t because you wasn't asked to come in early. Posties are not on flexi-time.
You will be expected to work to your finish time. (No dancing bananas here)


There wouldn't be any overtime to pay unless it was authorised before hand. Staff at her company are not on flexi either, they can't come & go as they please but the flagging up prevents anyone thinking they can get away with clocking early/late just because they hope to get ovetime etc. However, clocking should help a manager confirm what hours were actually worked. I have regular problems getting the correct authorised overtime paid,between the manager asking me to do overtime & it getting paid it seems to disappear! So I for one hope clocking backs me up when I have to chase payment again.

Clocking In

18 Feb 2020, 20:17

leolion855 wrote:
Rumple wrote:
leolion855 wrote:
Ali831 wrote:My wife has clocked in & out at her job for over 20 years. A fingerprint system is also about to be introduced. If someone clocks more then approx 5 minutes different to start & finish times it is automatically flagged up to the manager who has to authorise the difference. Staff are then for example either paid overtime or asked to make up any shortfall. She finds it crazy we still sign in and out with a paper & pen.


:nana THANKYOU, a sensible person at last :nana

And if the manager does not authorise the o/t because you wasn't asked to come in early. Posties are not on flexi-time.
You will be expected to work to your finish time. (No dancing bananas here)


what about the 30min flex that we get asked to work?

Totally different subject to coming in early in the hope you can go early.

Clocking In

19 Feb 2020, 09:04

citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one


Pretty much how I see it. I can see the plan being to introduce clocking in and out, performance standards and banking of hours or annualised hours all at the same time. That will be the only way to ensure they get what they want which is everyone working all hours they are paid for.

Clocking In

19 Feb 2020, 19:39

Zicomurphy wrote:That will be the only way to ensure they get what they want which is everyone working all hours they are paid for.


And this is why we are in the mess we are because "working all your paid hours" only seemed to apply to anyone who, for whatever reason, couldn't complete their delivery yet you never saw anyone getting performance tested for going over nearly everyday.

Poor management, runners and corner cutters have ruined the job and left senior managers with a ton of inaccurate data.

Clocking In

19 Feb 2020, 21:08

Marshamp11 wrote:
citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one
So they would want to dock your pay because a yellow dot has appeared on your PDA actuals. That could happen because you are waiting for someone to answer the door when delivering a parcel/recorded etc. Or will we be given a set time to wait before moving on. "Sorry mate you can't have your item now because you have exceeded the allowed door knocking waiting time, just follow the instructions on the 739 card, bye"

Wouldnt be allowed. If my memory serves me correctly Macdonalds and I think Costa or similar got into serious trouble for "stopping the clock". At quiet times staff were being asked to go sit down. A 6hr shift could last 8hrs.
Pretty sure it was outlawed.
Yellow dots will only ever flag up potential performance/duty issues. Down to manager to investigate reasons why.

Clocking In

19 Feb 2020, 22:54

Newbie001 wrote:
Marshamp11 wrote:
citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one
So they would want to dock your pay because a yellow dot has appeared on your PDA actuals. That could happen because you are waiting for someone to answer the door when delivering a parcel/recorded etc. Or will we be given a set time to wait before moving on. "Sorry mate you can't have your item now because you have exceeded the allowed door knocking waiting time, just follow the instructions on the 739 card, bye"

Wouldnt be allowed. If my memory serves me correctly Macdonalds and I think Costa or similar got into serious trouble for "stopping the clock". At quiet times staff were being asked to go sit down. A 6hr shift could last 8hrs.
Pretty sure it was outlawed.
Yellow dots will only ever flag up potential performance/duty issues. Down to manager to investigate reasons why.


Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 10:23

Zicomurphy wrote:
Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?


If you return 2 hours early then it is up to management to find work for you to do. If they can't find any then read a book, listen to the radio or whatever until clocking out at the end of your shift. You will be getting paid for that. What you won't be able to do is to bugger off home 2 hours early.

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 15:54

Schiff wrote:
Zicomurphy wrote:
Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?


If you return 2 hours early then it is up to management to find work for you to do. If they can't find any then read a book, listen to the radio or whatever until clocking out at the end of your shift. You will be getting paid for that. What you won't be able to do is to bugger off home 2 hours early.


Theres ALWAYS a van that needs cleaning.

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 17:01

Zicomurphy wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:
Marshamp11 wrote:
citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one
So they would want to dock your pay because a yellow dot has appeared on your PDA actuals. That could happen because you are waiting for someone to answer the door when delivering a parcel/recorded etc. Or will we be given a set time to wait before moving on. "Sorry mate you can't have your item now because you have exceeded the allowed door knocking waiting time, just follow the instructions on the 739 card, bye"

Wouldnt be allowed. If my memory serves me correctly Macdonalds and I think Costa or similar got into serious trouble for "stopping the clock". At quiet times staff were being asked to go sit down. A 6hr shift could last 8hrs.
Pretty sure it was outlawed.
Yellow dots will only ever flag up potential performance/duty issues. Down to manager to investigate reasons why.


Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?


In a previous employment I worked for, they banked the hours over the year. Any deficit would be drawn upon whenever management wanted and only agreed ot was paid, awful people to work for. There was no Union representation. I sincerely hope RM don't go down this route, but I fear they will try.

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 20:14

Schiff wrote:
Zicomurphy wrote:
Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?


If you return 2 hours early then it is up to management to find work for you to do. If they can't find any then read a book, listen to the radio or whatever until clocking out at the end of your shift. You will be getting paid for that. What you won't be able to do is to bugger off home 2 hours early.


Their whole mantra is “working all paid hours”. Don’t make the mistake of thinking the way things are now will apply in the future. If they start making changes by executive action they can do whatever they want. Do you think they will allow you to get paid to sit and do nothing for 2 hours if they can bring in banking of hours and get you to work those 2 hours when it’s busier.

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 20:28

mickeymacca wrote:
Zicomurphy wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:
Marshamp11 wrote:
citypostie wrote:I honestly can't understand why anyone would think clocking in/out would end up benefitting any of us. Don't you think that royal mail have realised that by bringing it in they could be giving people a reason to slow down and stop starting early for free with the knock on effects of people claiming more or cutting off? If this gets rolled out it will be a small part of a bigger plan that will include constant monitoring of how you are working during the hours you are paid. They surely can't be daft enough to just bring it in then let people either drag deliveries out to fill their hours or have people thinking they can work as slow as they want in order to clock off late and get paid it no questions asked! It isn't going to happen. At our gate meeting last week our area rep mentioned something new to me, that they want to automatically dock our pay for the yellow dots on the actuals , be interesting how they work that one
So they would want to dock your pay because a yellow dot has appeared on your PDA actuals. That could happen because you are waiting for someone to answer the door when delivering a parcel/recorded etc. Or will we be given a set time to wait before moving on. "Sorry mate you can't have your item now because you have exceeded the allowed door knocking waiting time, just follow the instructions on the 739 card, bye"

Wouldnt be allowed. If my memory serves me correctly Macdonalds and I think Costa or similar got into serious trouble for "stopping the clock". At quiet times staff were being asked to go sit down. A 6hr shift could last 8hrs.
Pretty sure it was outlawed.
Yellow dots will only ever flag up potential performance/duty issues. Down to manager to investigate reasons why.


Our problem could be that even doing the job properly on a very light day an 8 hour shift could last 6 hours. What happens then? Do we lose 2 hours pay because they can’t provide us with enough work? Or will we be obliged to work 2 hours extra at a time of their choosing?


In a previous employment I worked for, they banked the hours over the year. Any deficit would be drawn upon whenever management wanted and only agreed ot was paid, awful people to work for. There was no Union representation. I sincerely hope RM don't go down this route, but I fear they will try.


Exactly this. This is a job where no 2 days are the same. Some days of the week are heavier than others. Some times of the year are heavier than others. That’s the problem Royal Mail have always had. “Resourcing to workload” becomes a lot easier when on a very heavy day they have previously “banked” 150 hours across the whole office and can just tell people they have to stay out to completion, whatever that time might be.

Clocking In

20 Feb 2020, 20:39

If they go down the route of banking hours, it would be a great way to cut out day off overtime. You owe us 8 hours so you have to work your day off next week!

Clocking In

21 Feb 2020, 16:29

citypostie wrote:If they go down the route of banking hours, it would be a great way to cut out day off overtime. You owe us 8 hours so you have to work your day off next week!

What about "Dont pay me the 8 hours overtime I have earned this week I will take tomorrow off" Got to work both ways surely.

Clocking In

21 Feb 2020, 17:07

Marshamp11 wrote:
citypostie wrote:If they go down the route of banking hours, it would be a great way to cut out day off overtime. You owe us 8 hours so you have to work your day off next week!

What about "Dont pay me the 8 hours overtime I have earned this week I will take tomorrow off" Got to work both ways surely.


The problem comes when someone doesn't want "tomorrow" off but is told to anyway, or does want tomorrow off but is told "no chance". What union would ever agree to the concept of banked hours?

Clocking In

23 Feb 2020, 23:43

Rumour is we are going to have a manager in this week to talk about clocking in and out. Anyone else had this happen yet?

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