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Confused (Should I join)

12 May 2019, 19:11

Newbie Postie here....

Wondering if I should join the Union or not...

I hear complaining Posties everywhere.. on here and in my own Depot.... so it does make me think - if people aren't happy - then the Union can't be doing a good job.

People especially complaining they are overworked.... Shouldn't something like this be easy to fix?

For example, every Postie should be entitled to their break and taking that break, be freely allowed to cut off if they have not completed and come back to the depot at their finish time, or if not - they should get paid for any minutes worked past their contracted hours.

Why isn't it that simple? why isn't this enforced. I am not saying this is how it should be as I don't know the reasons why this cannot be implemented and enforced.

There are so many Posties complaining that they have no time for a break and that their job is a loop too long. Why hasn't the workload been reduced.

Scenario:

A Postie complains his walk is too long and that he has no time for a break, he feels a loop should be taken off his round. He has a meeting with his manager about this and brings along his Union rep. He can clearly demonstrate that the walk is 1 loop too long. What happens? it should be simple right - a loop gets taken off and the union rep ensures this happens?

Confused (Should I join)

12 May 2019, 19:57

Union got us a pay rise
If you're not in it, would you except the pay rise still?

Confused (Should I join)

12 May 2019, 20:33

gimba wrote:Union got us a pay rise
If you're not in it, would you except the pay rise still?

Why not?? royal mail pay you not cwu.

Confused (Should I join)

12 May 2019, 21:16

gimba wrote:Union got us a pay rise
If you're not in it, would you except the pay rise still?

It's called collective bargaining,whereby the union negotiates on behalf of all employees ,rather than non unionised staff having seperate talks.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 00:12

norris9 wrote:Newbie Postie here....

Wondering if I should join the Union or not...

I hear complaining Posties everywhere.. on here and in my own Depot.... so it does make me think - if people aren't happy - then the Union can't be doing a good job.

People especially complaining they are overworked.... Shouldn't something like this be easy to fix?

For example, every Postie should be entitled to their break and taking that break, be freely allowed to cut off if they have not completed and come back to the depot at their finish time, or if not - they should get paid for any minutes worked past their contracted hours.

Why isn't it that simple? why isn't this enforced. I am not saying this is how it should be as I don't know the reasons why this cannot be implemented and enforced.

There are so many Posties complaining that they have no time for a break and that their job is a loop too long. Why hasn't the workload been reduced.

Scenario:

A Postie complains his walk is too long and that he has no time for a break, he feels a loop should be taken off his round. He has a meeting with his manager about this and brings along his Union rep. He can clearly demonstrate that the walk is 1 loop too long. What happens? it should be simple right - a loop gets taken off and the union rep ensures this happens?

The short answer is that the majority of posties have joined the union. Most posties have joined the union because whether you are guilty or innocent of any rule breaking they will defend you to the hilt. I have seen many examples of posties getting off severe rule breaking - I won't go into any details here - and still remaining in the job. As we all know occasionally RM will go after Postie's accusing them of things they have not done. I was recently accused of damaging a van on purpose which I honestly did not do. Joining the union is an insurance policy if you like.
Regarding stuff like protecting our jobs etc the union does its best sometimes but often defends things they shouldn't and let's other changes through that they shouldn't have. Notable changes they shouldn't have let pass are absorption/lapsing/flexing and turning a blind eye to unpaid labour. So don't expect anything too much in terms of working conditions but do expect to keep your job as long as you wish to stay on.

PS regarding the scenario you mentioned you should be treated fairly on that but if it isn't easy to move some delivery points to another walk/s then it's likely they wouldn't make those changes. An easier option would be to take you off IPS or definitely make sure that if you were PT that you have ALL the prep and redirections done every day.
An improved walk design system is supposedly being made so we have to wait and see if that works out better. There is a chance their plan will make the walks more equal.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 13:26

norris9 wrote:Newbie Postie here....

Wondering if I should join the Union or not...
I will always say yes - I treat it as an insurance payment.

norris9 wrote:I hear complaining Posties everywhere.. on here and in my own Depot.... so it does make me think - if people aren't happy - then the Union can't be doing a good job.
The Union aren't there to keep people happy, morale or the lack of it is down to management style. The union are there to represent you and your colleague's interests.

norris9 wrote:People especially complaining they are overworked.... Shouldn't something like this be easy to fix?
Agree but it's not the Unions job to sort it.

norris9 wrote:For example, every Postie should be entitled to their break and taking that break, be freely allowed to cut off if they have not completed and come back to the depot at their finish time, or if not - they should get paid for any minutes worked past their contracted hours.
Yes, and again it is not the Unions job to enforce all the above, its the Unions job to help you and represent your interests if you have an issue with management and any of the concerns you mentioned.

norris9 wrote:Why isn't it that simple? why isn't this enforced? I am not saying this is how it should be as I don't know the reasons why this cannot be implemented and enforced.
The union is not a force for implementation or enforcement of an agreement, sorry if I sound like a broken record, the rep is there to represent your interests.

norris9 wrote:There are so many Posties complaining that they have no time for a break and that their job is a loop too long. Why hasn't the workload been reduced?
The Union cant reduce the workload, all it can is represent your interests when you have issues with management.

norris9 wrote:Scenario:

A Postie complains his walk is too long and that he has no time for a break, he feels a loop should be taken off his round. He has a meeting with his manager about this and brings along his Union rep. He can clearly demonstrate that the walk is 1 loop too long. What happens? it should be simple right - a loop gets taken off and the union rep ensures this happens?


Guess what, the Union Rep can't ensure this happens they are there to represent your interests. .....

I think sometimes this is why offices think they have a weak rep, or that the Union is useless, the rep in 99% of cases will always do their best, but if Managers become intransigent, or ignore the advice of the rep, then as they say "You are the Union" and you have to ask how far are you willing to go to back a rep.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 18:00

The rep should advise the complaining posties that they do not have to work over their time without a break and should follow the cutting off procedure. A lot of posties already know this, but continue to moan and blame the union (playing into the hands of RM).

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 18:40

norris9 wrote:Newbie Postie here....

Wondering if I should join the Union or not...

I hear complaining Posties everywhere.. on here and in my own Depot.... so it does make me think - if people aren't happy - then the Union can't be doing a good job.

People especially complaining they are overworked.... Shouldn't something like this be easy to fix?

For example, every Postie should be entitled to their break and taking that break, be freely allowed to cut off if they have not completed and come back to the depot at their finish time, or if not - they should get paid for any minutes worked past their contracted hours.

Why isn't it that simple? why isn't this enforced. I am not saying this is how it should be as I don't know the reasons why this cannot be implemented and enforced.

There are so many Posties complaining that they have no time for a break and that their job is a loop too long. Why hasn't the workload been reduced.

Scenario:

A Postie complains his walk is too long and that he has no time for a break, he feels a loop should be taken off his round. He has a meeting with his manager about this and brings along his Union rep. He can clearly demonstrate that the walk is 1 loop too long. What happens? it should be simple right - a loop gets taken off and the union rep ensures this happens?


no sure I would as a new starter on PT hours.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 18:41

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:"The Union cant reduce the workload, all it can is represent your interests when you have issues with management."


Ok, I am confused. My round is too long, a loop too long....the manager doesn't care and expects me to complete the round as it is. 1. My interests are that I'd like the round reduced. 2. I have an issue with management as they won't reduce it..... you're telling me that the Union can't help me, but you have also told me that they are supposed to represent my interests when I have an issue with management.

To me that doesn't make sense and is a contradiction. Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 18:44

enskied wrote:no sure I would as a new starter on PT hours.


This is what I was thinking....

Wouldn't it make sense for me to also wait for an issue to arise first and then join, or is that a bit sneaky?

I think I read that if you have an big/major issue with management for whatever reason...a meeting will be arranged and there is no immediate rush to have that meeting? so wouldn't it make sense to not join until that time arises, and then when it does just sign up? is sign up instant?

Isn't it £2.50 a week? I have already made savings by not joining, enough for a crate of beer.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 19:28

Wouldn't it make sense for me to also wait for an issue to arise first and then join, or is that a bit sneaky?


Firstly if you don't understand what a union is to be honest I wouldn't bother joining and secondly do you think you've just invented sneaky all by yourself?

In 99% of cases the union won't represent you retrospectively....so no it isn't sneaky it's just pointless.

I would skip the crate of beer and start saving...just in case.

Confused (Should I join)

13 May 2019, 20:06

norris9 wrote:Ok, I am confused. My round is too long, a loop too long....the manager doesn't care and expects me to complete the round as it is. 1. My interests are that I'd like the round reduced. 2. I have an issue with management as they won't reduce it..... you're telling me that the Union can't help me, but you have also told me that they are supposed to represent my interests when I have an issue with management.

.........


CWU can't do everything - you personally have to take the bull by the horns yourself to begin with. In another post I've linked you to the
Members Handbook which informs you of the 'cutting off procedure' which is agreed between RM and CWU. If you don't follow it don't expect
a union rep to jump in to assist with the above issues as the first thing he/she will ask you is 'Have you been 'cutting off'? '.

Confused (Should I join)

14 May 2019, 11:47

norris9 wrote:
Wouldn't it make sense for me to also wait for an issue to arise first and then join, or is that a bit sneaky?


No.

Reps can only represent members when they are members if you join after an issue what's to stop you leaving after its sorted. For exactly that reason, you can't be officially represented on a matter that happened before you joined.

norris9 wrote:
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:"The Union cant reduce the workload, all it can is represent your interests when you have issues with management."


Ok, I am confused. My round is too long, a loop too long....the manager doesn't care and expects me to complete the round as it is. 1. My interests are that I'd like the round reduced. 2. I have an issue with management as they won't reduce it..... you're telling me that the Union can't help me, but you have also told me that they are supposed to represent my interests when I have an issue with management.

To me that doesn't make sense and is a contradiction. Sorry if I am misunderstanding.


No contradiction. The rep has been trained and has experience in representing you, your rights and your obligations and should also be trained on the various agreements and processes that affect you and your colleagues in your working time.

If you have an issue the rep advises you when you speak to the manager, and also presents arguments in line with relevant agreements in any subsequent meeting.

Now if the manager decides to do nothing then the rep can advise you of the next steps you can take.

1. Work to your time and follow the overrunning deliveries procedure.
2. Claim overtime in agreement with the manager.
3. If the manager fails to follow the overrunning procedure or fails to pay you any agreed overtime then you can put in a grievance (the rep will help)
4. If you believe the manager is bullying or harassing you then you can also put in a grievance for this, or contact the B&H helpline.

Ultimately, if there is enough feeling within a unit because of the behaviour of managers, the rep may consider asking for what is called a Rule 13 ballot (Industrial Action) but to do that, and it mean anything, they need to know that the majority of members (and non members) will support the call.

Confused (Should I join)

14 May 2019, 14:28

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Wouldn't it make sense for me to also wait for an issue to arise first and then join, or is that a bit sneaky?


Firstly if you don't understand what a union is to be honest I wouldn't bother joining and secondly do you think you've just invented sneaky all by yourself?

In 99% of cases the union won't represent you retrospectively....so no it isn't sneaky it's just pointless.

I would skip the crate of beer and start saving...just in case.



Cheers for the advice.

Confused (Should I join)

14 May 2019, 14:45

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:No contradiction. The rep has been trained and has experience in representing you, your rights and your obligations and should also be trained on the various agreements and processes that affect you and your colleagues in your working time.

If you have an issue the rep advises you when you speak to the manager, and also presents arguments in line with relevant agreements in any subsequent meeting.

Now if the manager decides to do nothing then the rep can advise you of the next steps you can take.

1. Work to your time and follow the overrunning deliveries procedure.
2. Claim overtime in agreement with the manager.
3. If the manager fails to follow the overrunning procedure or fails to pay you any agreed overtime then you can put in a grievance (the rep will help)
4. If you believe the manager is bullying or harassing you then you can also put in a grievance for this, or contact the B&H helpline.

Ultimately, if there is enough feeling within a unit because of the behaviour of managers, the rep may consider asking for what is called a Rule 13 ballot (Industrial Action) but to do that, and it mean anything, they need to know that the majority of members (and non members) will support the call.



Thank you for your reply.

I think for now I won't join. If I wasn't financially secure, had children and/or a mortgage to pay - then I'd join right away as the insurance of the CWU would be much more important to me.

If I am bullied or harrassed then why would i work for a company who does such things....I'd rather walk away from a company like that than have to fight with the CWU to stay with that company.

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