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Part timer, forced OT

11 Mar 2018, 16:04

Hi there,

Like many I have taken on a part time role with Royal Mail hoping it would fit around my family life so I can spend more time doing the things that matter rather than working all day and sleeping all night.

So I get into the office, the two walks were not yet bundled up so I did some redirections and went and got the specials and van sorted etc whilst my 35 year+ serving experienced colleague got the two rounds bundled up. We didn't leave till after 9, and as we're driving along to the second loop he tells me he reckons we'll be going over! Even with working through our break, which he always does (which I think is part of the problem here). So I call my/our manager, still before 11 and let him know I'd like to be back at the office for my finish time. He's telling me I can't cut off now as I'd have had to tell him before we left, even though really I have no experience to judge finish times based on workloads. I was forced into doing OT so from now on I think I'll have to always tell him the load looks heavy and I'll be cutting off if I have to before I leave the office. It's a really hard on-going battle to finish on time.

The next day I was berated for going over and he swore in passing telling me to cut the bullshit and I'm not working hard enough. He also told me I should be able to bundle in half an hour by the second day, however in the interview I was told I would come in and pick up bundled walks and get straight out. Which one is true? Considering I'm splitting one of two frames with another person, and the other person is a full timer, I feel like actually he is the one telling porkies saying I should be able to handle half of this in my PT hours. Interestingly I was in another office for cover and they asked when I'd like to finish, and gave me an appropriate amount of work doable in the time! Magic! Another office even sent a van out to pick me up and take me back whilst the other geezer carried on as he was happy to OT(plus he was a Full timer). Obviously we all have banter and whilst I'm not offended by swearing and partake myself I'm not keen on it coming in a "do more work, you're not working hard enough" meeting from a manager. I'm starting to feel a little bullied in all fairness.

Is he within his rights telling me I can't cut off because I didn't say before I left the office? I have made it clear on many occasions I don't want OT, but do I have to make this clear each morning before leaving? Any clarifications or experiences appreciated.

Also, whilst I'm out on a delivery with another colleague, am I within my rights to choose a time around the middle and stop and take my break even if he wants to continue? I've barely ever had a break since starting and he didn't seem to care when I mentioned this in the meeting so I need to really pin down including this 30 minute break each day so the completion times are shown to be their real times rather than deflated through people working through breaks.

Part timer, forced OT

11 Mar 2018, 19:56

The correct procedure is to show the manager before you leave why you can’t complete. This allows him to make the decision of what to do, he can ask you to take it all out and bring back what you can’t deliver, however it’s in his best inrerests to let you leave what you can’t deliver behind so he can cover it on o/t. I now always make a point of telling the manager I have to be done on time or at a specific time if I don’t mind going over. Usually on a wed/thu or if there’s a lot of oversize, you learn to judge for yourself in time. It’s better to cover yourself before you go out. I think the problem is that he/she also needs to report to their manager if they're going to clear the office that day, so if you call and say you can’t complete after he’s already been in contact with his senior then it makes them look a wee bit silly if they then have to notify their manager that actually, were not clearing today.

Break times vary by office, it’s up to the manager to tell you when to take a break but not where to take it (ie; at your frame), your statutory break has to be somewhere in the middle of the shift, being part time, this will more than likely be your 10 minute break. In our office our 20 minutes non statutory break is always taken at the end which has been agreed locally. Ask your union rep about this.

In regards to what prep work has to be done for you, it depends on how many hours you work. I think if your around 25 hours, everything needs to be done in order to complete. It should just be a case of bagging up, loading and going. Around the 30 hour mark, you should probably be throwing up packets, redirects and bundling up. This would all depend on how long the walk is though. A good way to judge this would probably be that if your going over every day, then more prep needs to be done for you starting your shift.

Judging by other people’s posts a good remedy for this would be to point out to the manager that the reason you can’t complete is that you’ve had to spend x amount of mins on prep and the walk takes x amount of hours to complete. When you’ve cut off enough times you’ll notice the prep will be done for you arriving.

Hope this helps.

Part timer, forced OT

11 Mar 2018, 20:23

Make it clear to your partner that you will be finishing on time in future. He should be the one estimating how much you will go over if it's his permanent walk. Make it clear to him that you need to be brought back to the office for your finish time if he wants to do overtime. He will soon start letting the manager know himself that you need to cut off.

Part timer, forced OT

11 Mar 2018, 20:47

your statutory break has to be somewhere in the middle of the shift, being part time, this will more than likely be your 10 minute break. In our office our 20 minutes non statutory break is always taken at the end which has been agreed locally.

not correct, it can be anytime ,but you cannot be forced to take it at the end of your shift,thats employment law. Best practice is take it before you leave for delivery ,You are entitled to ,not your problem what the other guy does, you then have a fixed time to deliver . On a 25 hr contract I have been told by area and regional reps.the maximum delivery span is 3hrs 15 mins. If you are in any doubt about how long it will take your 25 - 59 attendance calls to answer the door ,flag it up before you leave the DO. Get Uri Geller to make the call.
PS keep written records ,never speak to management without a witness ; get the witness to sign a record of your conversation /interaction ,make sure you have legal cover(many insurance policies provide this as an add on)For some reason the CWU seem reticent to defend members legal rights in court .
Any opinions?

Part timer, forced OT

12 Mar 2018, 09:03

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with one or more break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should NOT be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

Part timer, forced OT

12 Mar 2018, 11:06

The Postman
We all- well nearly all !- know the procedure. It would appear that managers do not know or wish to implement the procedures for an over running duty time. They feel comfortable, righteous and entitled to treat people like this ( almost said like a slave there, mmmm, err only joking ). With wage negotiations, pensions etc receiving our unions main priority, why do they allow this basic everyday treatment of members go unchallenged, and get it sorted once and for all.
I cannot understand our CWU leaders apparent non interest of this problem. They profess an interest in our dignity and respect at work - as very union should be as a priority matter- but appear flippant and indifferent to the abuse and intimidation of members by RM management, DAILY not an occasionally isolated issue by any means.!

It is blatant intimidation, bullying and harassment, simple. What happens to these characters ? Nothing, ziltch.
Do they change their attitude ? NO. Do they get challenged by superiors or Union ? NO.
So the cycle continues and staff are subject to this every day. I know I rant on about this, plenty posters state in great detail the treatment they receive from DOMs about this. Where in any other job do employers try to fit a square peg into a round hole ? It's a simple fact that posties do have a right NOT to work overtime if they do not wish to or go over their contracted hours against their wishes.
If time is the factor due to the prep work prior to delivery not being done any sane person will realise any remaining time to do the delivery aspect of a duty is reduced = less mail can be delivered within duty time.

Part timer, forced OT

12 Mar 2018, 20:11

What's the deal with OT authorisation? If you're cornered into working OT, like I had no one willing to drop me off at the office can I legally insist I should be paid the OT?

Part timer, forced OT

13 Mar 2018, 13:55

tommyrep wrote:The Postman
We all- well nearly all !- know the procedure. It would appear that managers do not know or wish to implement the procedures for an over running duty time. They feel comfortable, righteous and entitled to treat people like this ( almost said like a slave there, mmmm, err only joking ). With wage negotiations, pensions etc receiving our unions main priority, why do they allow this basic everyday treatment of members go unchallenged, and get it sorted once and for all.
I cannot understand our CWU leaders apparent non interest of this problem. They profess an interest in our dignity and respect at work - as very union should be as a priority matter- but appear flippant and indifferent to the abuse and intimidation of members by RM management, DAILY not an occasionally isolated issue by any means.!

It is blatant intimidation, bullying and harassment, simple. What happens to these characters ? Nothing, ziltch.
Do they change their attitude ? NO. Do they get challenged by superiors or Union ? NO.
So the cycle continues and staff are subject to this every day. I know I rant on about this, plenty posters state in great detail the treatment they receive from DOMs about this. Where in any other job do employers try to fit a square peg into a round hole ? It's a simple fact that posties do have a right NOT to work overtime if they do not wish to or go over their contracted hours against their wishes.
If time is the factor due to the prep work prior to delivery not being done any sane person will realise any remaining time to do the delivery aspect of a duty is reduced = less mail can be delivered within duty time.



Managers who bully workers they are in charge of, to achieve bonus or make their life easier, are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned. The way forward is not putting in a grievance or ringing the bullying hotline though. The way forward is for the CWU to use its might and funds to build a thorough dossier of evidence on these scumbags. Then employ the services of a Barrister to sue these people individually one by one in the civil courts. For their houses, their cars, compensation for their victims and even the hand made shirts off their back. After 30 or 40 of these people have publicly been through the courts, the rest, who only think of money and their career prospects, may well recalibrate their behaviour.

Part timer, forced OT

13 Mar 2018, 18:42

PackageForYou wrote:What's the deal with OT authorisation? If you're cornered into working OT, like I had no one willing to drop me off at the office can I legally insist I should be paid the OT?

If your partner is not willing to drop you off your manager needs to pick you up early enough to get back for your finish time. Make sure they know this then if you are still over your time claim it. If forced to go over again get rep involved. It all really depends how much you are willing to go over (10-20 mins) now and again seems reasonable to me but you don't have to. It's your call.

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