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21 May 2007, 14:21

Postman, that is correct, the managers have a letter they must issue to you that they don't believe it was an AOD. If this letter is not issued it is an AOD by default. Bear with me and I will post tomorrow when I get the relevant paperwork for you. I actually won several cases purely on this point. I asked the manager to produce the disputed AOD letter and they looked blank.

21 May 2007, 14:22

andycprice wrote:Postman, that is correct, the managers have a letter they must issue to you that they don't believe it was an AOD. If this letter is not issued it is an AOD by default. Bear with me and I will post tomorrow when I get the relevant paperwork for you. I actually won several cases purely on this point. I asked the manager to produce the disputed AOD letter and they looked blank.


Cheers mate any info would be great,as a lot of us get done by this.

21 May 2007, 14:27

No problem. I'll be logging back on tomorrow with information you need.

Accidents on duty..before starting time?

21 May 2007, 15:43

Can anyone tell me where you stand if you have an accident in your office before your duty start time. I've heard on many occasions that your not insured before your start time, is this true. Would it be classed as AOD or not. Reason for asking is we do have alot of staff starting before duty time, which if your not insured, would be a serious H&S prob, which again would be the mangers prob/duty to sort out. Can anyone clear this up.

21 May 2007, 15:45

I can clear that up.

You sign on the signing on sheet when you arrive..................you're insured! sinple as that. A manager tells you different is misleading you.

21 May 2007, 18:00

From the managers absence management guidelines..

"When it is disputed that an absence was related to an AOD, the line manager should write to the individual to advise them"

(Letter Appendix 8a).."This is just to inform you that I am seeking advice on whether or not this particular absence should be counted"

They must then seek advice from the EHS and the area safety rep.

This is the important bit..

"Line managers should aim to resolve any dispute within two working weeks of the persons return to work"

"If after a further period of two weeks thematter is still unresolved it should be brought to a conclusion in the individuals favour"

21 May 2007, 18:16

andycprice wrote:From the managers absence management guidelines..

"When it is disputed that an absence was related to an AOD, the line manager should write to the individual to advise them"

(Letter Appendix 8a).."This is just to inform you that I am seeking advice on whether or not this particular absence should be counted"

They must then seek advice from the EHS and the area safety rep.

This is the important bit..

"Line managers should aim to resolve any dispute within two working weeks of the persons return to work"

"If after a further period of two weeks thematter is still unresolved it should be brought to a conclusion in the individuals favour"


So basically the chances are hardly ANY Manager will go down this route so nearly every AOD everywhere should now be discounted.
Have i got that right.

And which area safety rep is it ours or theirs.

21 May 2007, 18:24

You got it.

I should have put "area safety advisor" and it's theirs. The reason for this is to make sure they are doing their "duty of care"

21 May 2007, 19:56

Andy,i'd be very suprised if many people knew about this,i can guarantee that my screws don't.
This is so bloody helpful,thanks a lot mate.

22 May 2007, 16:37

you're welcome.

I have a whole folder of management dealing with absence. It even had idiot proof pre written letters for managers to just insert names and dates.

22 May 2007, 17:40

Top man Andy,you could be a busy man on here :Very Happy
Cheers

Re: Accidents on duty..before starting time?

22 May 2007, 17:46

kjbosco wrote:Can anyone tell me where you stand if you have an accident in your office before your duty start time. I've heard on many occasions that your not insured before your start time, is this true. Would it be classed as AOD or not. Reason for asking is we do have alot of staff starting before duty time, which if your not insured, would be a serious H&S prob, which again would be the mangers prob/duty to sort out. Can anyone clear this up.


I was always told by my ASR that if the managers let you start work early then you are insured.

Re: Accidents on duty..before starting time?

22 May 2007, 17:55

Big Daz wrote:
kjbosco wrote:Can anyone tell me where you stand if you have an accident in your office before your duty start time. I've heard on many occasions that your not insured before your start time, is this true. Would it be classed as AOD or not. Reason for asking is we do have alot of staff starting before duty time, which if your not insured, would be a serious H&S prob, which again would be the mangers prob/duty to sort out. Can anyone clear this up.


I was always told by my ASR that if the managers let you start work early then you are insured.


If you sign the signing on sheet(if it's there) you are covered,if you don't you aint.

22 May 2007, 19:26

punk you need to get your area health & safetey rep involved with your case as this could be something intresting and could prevent further accidents to others..all is honky dory in ituations like your till the wheel falls off.

24 May 2007, 20:55

punk it probably seems unfair :d'oh! that you got your stage 2 but managers nowadays will do anything to sneakily reduce their full time staff level. If RM managers used common sense, your 2 absences would be linked to the AOD . In hindsight wat you should have done was; take 1 long absence period for the injury, use the OHS service. (It's benefitial as it looks like you're making an effort) They will set a rehab plan for you which the DOM has to adhere to. If they don't, they can get their ass kicked as the OHS sets the review period. This way you make the effort of getting to the D.O, without the hassle of doing the full duty. Use the standards to try and quosh the stage 2. It states that a manager has to inform staff of any changes of practice in their workplace. So, if they haven't trained you correctly, it's their fault

25 May 2007, 18:13

This is clearly an AOD and any attempt to issue a warning for it you should use the individual grievance procedure.

Even if issued and you unfortunately arrive at a stage three they have to consider the stage two was incorrectly issued. If not the industrial tribunal would tear this case to pieces.

Accident on duty-Insured or not

25 May 2007, 19:11

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember a few years back an Industrial Tribunal case at RM which was chucked out and Postwoman sacked because she was judged to not be on duty at the time! She was in the canteen before her start time and had am accident and was off work some time and got the bullet for it.As far as I know ,if you ain't being paid you ain't on duty and ain't insured.So all you morons who start before your time or go over without claiming aren't insured and won't get a bean and will probably get the boot too! Health and Safety issues are totally different to being on or off duty.Hope that helps :crazy:

05 Jun 2007, 10:55

:sad: :sad: :sad:
Hi Im reading a lot of comments about people starting early!!!
I wont go on about it, needless to say its totally wrong.
To combat this common practice, has the CWU thought
of trying for a clocking on and clocking off system
instead of this job & knock which R/M are getting away
with murder over.
If these Dickheads who come in early can't finnish
untill their time and then have to clock off then there's no
reason to give R/M any unpaid time is there!!!
And it will bring to the forfront any deliveries which are over
the top, which at present are being acheived due to these
Brainless fools rushing around like headless chickens.
Any responses positive or negative would be welcomed thanks. :wave

05 Jun 2007, 11:34

Wont matter soon when all the nights go,then what are the numnuts gonna do.

05 Jun 2007, 13:23

hoofer wrote::sad: :sad: :sad:
Hi Im reading a lot of comments about people starting early!!!
I wont go on about it, needless to say its totally wrong.
To combat this common practice, has the CWU thought
of trying for a clocking on and clocking off system
instead of this job & knock which R/M are getting away
with murder over.
If these Dickheads who come in early can't finnish
untill their time and then have to clock off then there's no
reason to give R/M any unpaid time is there!!!
And it will bring to the forfront any deliveries which are over
the top, which at present are being acheived due to these
Brainless fools rushing around like headless chickens.
Any responses positive or negative would be welcomed thanks. :wave


A postman told me today that he doesn't book excess if he goes over by 10-15 min ! i tried to explain to him the total cost to himself over the year if he does this twice a week ((15 x2 =30)x 46 weeks = 24 hrs or three working days a year unpaid) still he would'nt book it!! go figure

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