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Can't get desired annual leave

26 Sep 2020, 17:43

Been said many times before but annual leave is never guaranteed as there are many mitigating opportunities to stop yours being granted when you want it, whether it's you getting your form given to you before anyone else of you returning it to your line manager after other people with the same preferences have.

I thought the reasonable thing to do would be to book after you have confirmation but...apparently this is not the case.

Can't get desired annual leave

26 Sep 2020, 18:03

smartecosse wrote:What happens if there is just no availability for annual leave to be taken?

I work in a relatively small office that has a high proportion of people who purchase additional leave.

Quite a few people, myself included, still have several weeks to take / book for this year.

There is one week available early next year and that's it......


There should be enough spaces for all Annual leave , purchased or other wise to taken in any leave year
The minimum number of Slots needed to accommodate the above should be agreed between the Manager / Rep

Can't get desired annual leave

26 Sep 2020, 18:12

smartecosse wrote:What happens if there is just no availability for annual leave to be taken?

I work in a relatively small office that has a high proportion of people who purchase additional leave.

Quite a few people, myself included, still have several weeks to take / book for this year.

There is one week available early next year and that's it......


They should try and cover it with people working days off or people doing double duty’s.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 09:31

Blinkboy44 wrote:What happens if I can’t get the Annual leave ive requested , my partner booked a holiday for us next year , but I don’t have the time off secured, if I can’t get it off surely they can’t stop me from going. What’s the point in working to afford to do things but then can’t do them , is unpaid leave an option , or will I need to take time off stress related courtesy of Royal Mail , seems a joke , I have never worked anywhere Like this before where you have to fight and struggle to do simple normal things


Well you've not worked for many big employers then(inb4 i've worked for everyone) - none would tell you to book your flights first and then yep give you your holiday. What if everyone in the office decided to go away together?

You'll probably get it regardless, but general policy from companies holiday policy is don't book anything until the holiday has been approved.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 10:10

I've posted here on this issue many times. Annual leave should be done and dusted by the end of October. Not some of it. Not just for some people but ALL OF IT. Regardless of whether it's purchased leave or not. There should be no "spare weeks" available. You shouldn't have any weeks of your entitled leave left to take because it should be allocated before end of October.

Entitled leave is all leave you are due for that year not including carry over. Whether you purchase leave or not, it doesn't matter. Whoever is doing the leave is supposed to count up every day of leave in an office and fit that into an annual plan taking into consideration the maximum leave ceiling, summer lapsing and the Xmas block. . So by the end of October every week should be full and every person should have a leave card with every week of leave stated on it. If this isn't happening get your rep onto it.

I'm in a medium sized office of 75 people and pretty much everyone gets the leave they want. There may be the odd week that more people want than we can afford to have off so we may have to do a draw. However if we do have to do a draw then anyone losing out on any one week doesn't go into anymore draws that year or the next.

It's easy but a lot of work to ensure that the leave system is fair but unfortunately it's often put in the hands of lazy people to do this.

Seniority CANNOT be used for leave anymore.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 10:29

xPandabear1992x wrote:Been said many times before but annual leave is never guaranteed as there are many mitigating opportunities to stop yours being granted when you want it, whether it's you getting your form given to you before anyone else of you returning it to your line manager after other people with the same preferences have.

I thought the reasonable thing to do would be to book after you have confirmation but...apparently this is not the case.


The allocation process shouldn't be started until everyone has put their preference in. In my office I put the sheets out at the start of July asking what dates people would like for the next leave year. It's stated on the sheets that they have until the end of August to return them to me. I tell them that unless I get their sheets back by then, their leave may be allocated for them. That never happens.

I don't start to sort dates out until I have everyones sheet in. That's the fair way to do it.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 12:18

97gaz wrote:I've posted here on this issue many times. Annual leave should be done and dusted by the end of October. Not some of it. Not just for some people but ALL OF IT. Regardless of whether it's purchased leave or not. There should be no "spare weeks" available. You shouldn't have any weeks of your entitled leave left to take because it should be allocated before end of October.

Entitled leave is all leave you are due for that year not including carry over. Whether you purchase leave or not, it doesn't matter. Whoever is doing the leave is supposed to count up every day of leave in an office and fit that into an annual plan taking into consideration the maximum leave ceiling, summer lapsing and the Xmas block. . So by the end of October every week should be full and every person should have a leave card with every week of leave stated on it. If this isn't happening get your rep onto it.

I'm in a medium sized office of 75 people and pretty much everyone gets the leave they want. There may be the odd week that more people want than we can afford to have off so we may have to do a draw. However if we do have to do a draw then anyone losing out on any one week doesn't go into anymore draws that year or the next.

It's easy but a lot of work to ensure that the leave system is fair but unfortunately it's often put in the hands of lazy people to do this.

Seniority CANNOT be used for leave anymore.


When you say all leave sorted by end of October, do you mean all leave to end of following March? Or to the end of March some 17 months away?

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 13:00

By 31 Oct 20 the leave should be fully agreed for 01 Apr 21 to 31 Mar 22.

Our office never even looks at it until January, but that's because the rep does it!

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 18:03

smartecosse wrote:What happens if there is just no availability for annual leave to be taken?

I work in a relatively small office that has a high proportion of people who purchase additional leave.

Quite a few people, myself included, still have several weeks to take / book for this year.

There is one week available early next year and that's it......

I guess you will have to take matters into your own hands

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 18:26

What happens if there is just no availability for annual leave to be taken?


On paper that can't happen.
The number of leave slots opened up is determined by the number of leave weeks required, not the other way around.

If an office needs 96 leave weeks it would require 2 leave slots per week allowing for 4 weeks Christmas pressure.

Someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 18:29

Woody Guthrie wrote:
What happens if there is just no availability for annual leave to be taken?


On paper that can't happen.
The number of leave slots opened up is determined by the number of leave weeks required, not the other way around.

If an office needs 96 leave weeks it would require 2 leave slots per week allowing for 4 weeks Christmas pressure.

Someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly.

If everyone wants the same weeks but you would do a draw for it surely and failing that?

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 20:57

97gaz wrote:I've posted here on this issue many times. Annual leave should be done and dusted by the end of October. Not some of it. Not just for some people but ALL OF IT. Regardless of whether it's purchased leave or not. There should be no "spare weeks" available. You shouldn't have any weeks of your entitled leave left to take because it should be allocated before end of October.

Entitled leave is all leave you are due for that year not including carry over. Whether you purchase leave or not, it doesn't matter. Whoever is doing the leave is supposed to count up every day of leave in an office and fit that into an annual plan taking into consideration the maximum leave ceiling, summer lapsing and the Xmas block. . So by the end of October every week should be full and every person should have a leave card with every week of leave stated on it. If this isn't happening get your rep onto it.

I'm in a medium sized office of 75 people and pretty much everyone gets the leave they want. There may be the odd week that more people want than we can afford to have off so we may have to do a draw. However if we do have to do a draw then anyone losing out on any one week doesn't go into anymore draws that year or the next.

It's easy but a lot of work to ensure that the leave system is fair but unfortunately it's often put in the hands of lazy people to do this.

Seniority CANNOT be used for leave anymore.


All correct and pretty much how my office operates (sometimes completed later than the end of October but not by much)

But I do think it’s kind of ludicrous that everyone is supposed to know exactly the dates they want off up to 18 months in advance. If anything crops up and you need an odd day or two off it’s almost impossible to get it because there are no spaces because everyone has been forced to pick all their leave. So what happens? People go sick instead and probably for longer than the 2 days they needed off and were quite happy to use annual leave for.

Surely a better system would be that a certain amount of your annual leave, say 3 or 4 weeks, had to be picked by a certain date and the rest could be picked at anytime on a first come first served basis.

Can't get desired annual leave

27 Sep 2020, 23:21

Go sick life will go on royal mail will go on and you will come back happy solved.

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 00:19

Agree with the OP. No workplace has the insane system of leave like RM, where you have to apply years in advance and might get turned down.

In most jobs a word with your boss "wife's booked a holiday in a few weeks, that ok?" Is enough.

We're all institutionalised in this job. This kind of crap we suffer is NOT normal.

Go sick, f*ck em and their outdated practices.

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 08:35

sindba wrote:In most jobs a word with your boss "wife's booked a holiday in a few weeks, that ok?" Is enough.


"No problem at all, all one hundred of you can have the second week in August off and the week leading up to Christmas too if you wish" said no boss of any firm, ever.

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 09:20

Tman wrote:
sindba wrote:In most jobs a word with your boss "wife's booked a holiday in a few weeks, that ok?" Is enough.


"No problem at all, all one hundred of you can have the second week in August off and the week leading up to Christmas too if you wish" said no boss of any firm, ever.


I think most of us know when the most in demand weeks are and appreciate if you want time off then that you need to choose it as your first pick to have a good chance of getting it.

The fact of the matter is by forcing your entire workforce to pick all their leave up to 18 months in advance all weeks get full up and even if you want a couple of days off in February the answer will still be “no, sorry, no spaces available”

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 09:59

Zicomurphy wrote:
Tman wrote:
sindba wrote:In most jobs a word with your boss "wife's booked a holiday in a few weeks, that ok?" Is enough.


"No problem at all, all one hundred of you can have the second week in August off and the week leading up to Christmas too if you wish" said no boss of any firm, ever.


I think most of us know when the most in demand weeks are and appreciate if you want time off then that you need to choose it as your first pick to have a good chance of getting it.

The fact of the matter is by forcing your entire workforce to pick all their leave up to 18 months in advance all weeks get full up and even if you want a couple of days off in February the answer will still be “no, sorry, no spaces available”


We always had 2 Sheets , one for Full Weeks , the other for Odd Days

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 10:58

97gaz wrote:
xPandabear1992x wrote:Been said many times before but annual leave is never guaranteed as there are many mitigating opportunities to stop yours being granted when you want it, whether it's you getting your form given to you before anyone else of you returning it to your line manager after other people with the same preferences have.

I thought the reasonable thing to do would be to book after you have confirmation but...apparently this is not the case.


The allocation process shouldn't be started until everyone has put their preference in. In my office I put the sheets out at the start of July asking what dates people would like for the next leave year. It's stated on the sheets that they have until the end of August to return them to me. I tell them that unless I get their sheets back by then, their leave may be allocated for them. That never happens.

I don't start to sort dates out until I have everyones sheet in. That's the fair way to do it.


perhaps i mispoke, it is indeed like that in out office! :crazy:

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 11:36

Zicomurphy wrote:
But I do think it’s kind of ludicrous that everyone is supposed to know exactly the dates they want off up to 18 months in advance. If anything crops up and you need an odd day or two off it’s almost impossible to get it because there are no spaces because everyone has been forced to pick all their leave. So what happens? People go sick instead and probably for longer than the 2 days they needed off and were quite happy to use annual leave for.

Surely a better system would be that a certain amount of your annual leave, say 3 or 4 weeks, had to be picked by a certain date and the rest could be picked at anytime on a first come first served basis.


It's the nature of the beast unfortunately. A company the size of RM needs to know it will have the staff to cover the work. We have a finite amount of work to do everyday and as a result we need a finite number of staff everyday.

My office has a leave ceiling of 9. If we have anymore than that off then we can't cover the work. To cover all the work when people are on leave we then need 9 leave reserves. Any other system screws that up.

If we allow weeks of leave to be requested whenever it suits the staff then we will all be carrying loads of extra leave over in to the next year which then can't be covered again. Then the only way of covering it will be to take extra staff on . Then after we have cleared the leave we then have too many staff.

I think a lot of people have no idea what it's like to work for this type of company. I can't see a way around this system. This is unfortunately how it has to be.

Can't get desired annual leave

28 Sep 2020, 22:06

Pretty much every company or public service needs the right number of people to cover a day's work.

But few employees in these organisations have to book all - yes ALL - their leave 18 months in advance.

Sorry, but the leave system in RM is insane.

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