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Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 08:06

Should this way of working be abandoned now?
I could understand it when 2 people were on van share - because it would be done properly.
But with a full timer prepping a part timer's duty..... let's be honest, if it gets done at all it gets done badly. (I apologise for the generalisation and I am sure there are some full timers who do the job professionally. I just haven't met one)

And how does throwing 50/60 parcels on top of a frame in a random order constitute "prepping". With random bits of paper stuffed in the frame or random letters turned.
It would be far better to let the part timer prep their own duty.
More hours for LTFT staff leading to a reduced turnover of staff. Greater efficiency. Less stress.

Obviously it would mean less full time staff but full time postman is a dying breed anyway.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 11:43

Trouble is if a PT is on a 30 hour contract at 6 hours a day (over 5 days) how can you prep a delivery,bundle it,deliver it and have a meal relief in 6 hours? And travelling as well (if they drive that is)

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 12:15

I'm a P/T and have been with RM over a year now and I've run into this problem a lot. Some F/T staff prep properly don't get me wrong but some have no interest as it's not "their" work to do, so they may only do the letters and not packets or redirections. When I go into the office and this has been the case, I make my lino aware and prep in my time and cut off later on. The irony is I end up leaving most of the loops in the frame once I’m finished prepping to make sure the tracked parcels get delivered within my hours. I’m on a 25 hour contract with a 30min break, that leaves 4.5 hours to prep my delivery, bag up, drive to my delivery point and do all my parcels during the duty, which is impossible. My contract isn’t fit for purpose and I end up claiming O/T everyday just to finish, but as of late with no van sharing I’ve lost the love due to the work loads and end up cutting off everyday. The current situation is a complete nightmare. :roll:

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 14:44

Bahia Feliz wrote:Trouble is if a PT is on a 30 hour contract at 6 hours a day (over 5 days) how can you prep a delivery,bundle it,deliver it and have a meal relief in 6 hours? And travelling as well (if they drive that is)

Well that would depend on what the delivery span is.
If more hours were needed than 6 hours/day then it would already be a full time delivery anyway.
Apart from rural duties I have never known a duty that would take 7 hours/day to prep and deliver. (I have known a few people who could string it out that long)

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 14:58

Jamesfr3man wrote:I'm a P/T and have been with RM over a year now and I've run into this problem a lot. Some F/T staff prep properly don't get me wrong but some have no interest as it's not "their" work to do, so they may only do the letters and not packets or redirections. When I go into the office and this has been the case, I make my lino aware and prep in my time and cut off later on. The irony is I end up leaving most of the loops in the frame once I’m finished prepping to make sure the tracked parcels get delivered within my hours. I’m on a 25 hour contract with a 30min break, that leaves 4.5 hours to prep my delivery, bag up, drive to my delivery point and do all my parcels during the duty, which is impossible. My contract isn’t fit for purpose and I end up claiming O/T everyday just to finish, but as of late with no van sharing I’ve lost the love due to the work loads and end up cutting off everyday. The current situation is a complete nightmare. :roll:


It's shameful the extent to which this goes on. The union knows it happens, management clearly let it happen, and ultimately it can lead to people losing their jobs due to constant run ins with management over manageable workload.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 15:47

clashcityrocker wrote:Should this way of working be abandoned now?
I could understand it when 2 people were on van share - because it would be done properly.
But with a full timer prepping a part timer's duty..... let's be honest, if it gets done at all it gets done badly. (I apologise for the generalisation and I am sure there are some full timers who do the job professionally. I just haven't met one)

And how does throwing 50/60 parcels on top of a frame in a random order constitute "prepping". With random bits of paper stuffed in the frame or random letters turned.
It would be far better to let the part timer prep their own duty.
More hours for LTFT staff leading to a reduced turnover of staff. Greater efficiency. Less stress.

Obviously it would mean less full time staff but full time postman is a dying breed anyway.

Double prep do not throw the whole walk off as the part timer comes in to finish it off,in our office you only put in d2d's,sequence and flats,part timer comes in and preps his own packets .

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 15:50

Cucumber wrote:
Jamesfr3man wrote:I'm a P/T and have been with RM over a year now and I've run into this problem a lot. Some F/T staff prep properly don't get me wrong but some have no interest as it's not "their" work to do, so they may only do the letters and not packets or redirections. When I go into the office and this has been the case, I make my lino aware and prep in my time and cut off later on. The irony is I end up leaving most of the loops in the frame once I’m finished prepping to make sure the tracked parcels get delivered within my hours. I’m on a 25 hour contract with a 30min break, that leaves 4.5 hours to prep my delivery, bag up, drive to my delivery point and do all my parcels during the duty, which is impossible. My contract isn’t fit for purpose and I end up claiming O/T everyday just to finish, but as of late with no van sharing I’ve lost the love due to the work loads and end up cutting off everyday. The current situation is a complete nightmare. :roll:


It's shameful the extent to which this goes on. The union knows it happens, management clearly let it happen, and ultimately it can lead to people losing their jobs due to constant run ins with management over manageable workload.


If its on there 318 , it is there work to do

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 15:56

No

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 16:02

UNION JACK wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote:Should this way of working be abandoned now?
I could understand it when 2 people were on van share - because it would be done properly.
But with a full timer prepping a part timer's duty..... let's be honest, if it gets done at all it gets done badly. (I apologise for the generalisation and I am sure there are some full timers who do the job professionally. I just haven't met one)

And how does throwing 50/60 parcels on top of a frame in a random order constitute "prepping". With random bits of paper stuffed in the frame or random letters turned.
It would be far better to let the part timer prep their own duty.
More hours for LTFT staff leading to a reduced turnover of staff. Greater efficiency. Less stress.

Obviously it would mean less full time staff but full time postman is a dying breed anyway.

Double prep do not throw the whole walk off as the part timer comes in to finish it off,in our office you only put in d2d's,sequence and flats,part timer comes in and preps his own packets .


I will never understand why this is considered an effective way to work. Why get the guy with less hours to do the job of the F/T when you already have that same person on the frame in the morning preparing 70% of the walk. How much more work/time is it to a F/T compared to a P/T? All this does is take away valuable delivery time from a guy who is already under the kosh when he gets to work. Obviously I'm biased but when I'm seeing F/T finishing hours before the end of their duty or are have left hours before I've even come in, it pisses me off to no end... especially when they leave frames unprepped :mad

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 16:18

When I double prepped, the last time over a year ago, I had to prep all of it. I would prep the walk seq first then the boxes of flats for the PT walk, then the same for my walk. Go to the IPS frames and clear both walks down. Do the PT walk first then mine. Clear the DBF doing the PT walks packets first then mine, I would put the PT walks packets on top in order of how the walk was delivered marking each packet with a blank P739 in the frame as thats how the guy worked. After that I would keep checking the IPS frames and DBF and need be clear them down. If there was not much sorting left I had to prep the D2D's on both walks, PT walk first then mine ( sometimes each walk had between 4 - 6 D2ds each which would work out about 300 delivery points x how many D2Ds we had for that day ). When all that had been done I went and had my meal relief, 40 mins, and all the people on IPS were already on their meal relief.
After my meal relief I had to prep the second wave of Walk Seq for both walks and do the redirections on both. Alot of the time the people who had been on IPS were already going out the door before I had even finished prepping the last lot of walk seq and they thought I had it easy.
Personally I found double prep very stressful and I was very glad when I managed to finally get a transfer to my local MC after doing nearly 32 years on delivery.
Last edited by fangrock on 30 Jul 2020, 16:42, edited 1 time in total.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 16:40

Jamesfr3man wrote:
UNION JACK wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote:Should this way of working be abandoned now?
I could understand it when 2 people were on van share - because it would be done properly.
But with a full timer prepping a part timer's duty..... let's be honest, if it gets done at all it gets done badly. (I apologise for the generalisation and I am sure there are some full timers who do the job professionally. I just haven't met one)

And how does throwing 50/60 parcels on top of a frame in a random order constitute "prepping". With random bits of paper stuffed in the frame or random letters turned.
It would be far better to let the part timer prep their own duty.
More hours for LTFT staff leading to a reduced turnover of staff. Greater efficiency. Less stress.

Obviously it would mean less full time staff but full time postman is a dying breed anyway.

Double prep do not throw the whole walk off as the part timer comes in to finish it off,in our office you only put in d2d's,sequence and flats,part timer comes in and preps his own packets .


I will never understand why this is considered an effective way to work. Why get the guy with less hours to do the job of the F/T when you already have that same person on the frame in the morning preparing 70% of the walk. How much more work/time is it to a F/T compared to a P/T? All this does is take away valuable delivery time from a guy who is already under the kosh when he gets to work. Obviously I'm biased but when I'm seeing F/T finishing hours before the end of their duty or are have left hours before I've even come in, it pisses me off to no end... especially when they leave frames unprepped :mad

This is the problem full timers getting annoyed with part timers and vice versa the management love this because there will always be someone who walks over and does the overtime.The managers are afraid of the bosses above them,posties afraid to say no to managers its a boiling pot,this isn't just Royal Mail its like this in most companies across the country its the way society is set up,just chill tell your manager your not doing it ,stop overtime,do not walk over,i know what your going to say it will never happen but just imagine the fun if all your office got together and just said NO,god i feel a song coming on .

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 17:32

wallan wrote:
Cucumber wrote:
Jamesfr3man wrote:I'm a P/T and have been with RM over a year now and I've run into this problem a lot. Some F/T staff prep properly don't get me wrong but some have no interest as it's not "their" work to do, so they may only do the letters and not packets or redirections. When I go into the office and this has been the case, I make my lino aware and prep in my time and cut off later on. The irony is I end up leaving most of the loops in the frame once I’m finished prepping to make sure the tracked parcels get delivered within my hours. I’m on a 25 hour contract with a 30min break, that leaves 4.5 hours to prep my delivery, bag up, drive to my delivery point and do all my parcels during the duty, which is impossible. My contract isn’t fit for purpose and I end up claiming O/T everyday just to finish, but as of late with no van sharing I’ve lost the love due to the work loads and end up cutting off everyday. The current situation is a complete nightmare. :roll:


It's shameful the extent to which this goes on. The union knows it happens, management clearly let it happen, and ultimately it can lead to people losing their jobs due to constant run ins with management over manageable workload.


If its on there 318 , it is there work to do


Of course it's on the 318
Which of course means it's their responsibility.
But when balanced with flying out the door 30 mins early vs prepping a part time run, there is only one winner.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 17:50

UNION JACK wrote:Double prep do not throw the whole walk off as the part timer comes in to finish it off,in our office you only put in d2d's,sequence and flats,part timer comes in and preps his own packets .

So you are half way there - now go the whole hog and give the part timer a better contract and let him/her prep the lot.
I particularly don't like coming in to a frame not knowing who has been coughing and spluttering over it for half the morning.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 17:54

Unpopular post of the year coming up....

Trying to steer away from PT vs FT cos we’ve done it to death on here.

Anyway....

At some point Royal Mail will have a huge amount of backdated holiday pay to pay to part timers. I’m owed £1500 ish. Some PT will be owed more, some less. Assume an average of £1000 which is being conservative, and 30,000 PT (my estimate) that’s £30 million.

Not sure about other PT staff but I’d gladly accept a one off nominal payment of say £200 in my next wage PLUS have 5 hours added onto my contracted hours (so my 25 hour contract becomes 30 hours). Royal Mail know the majority of PT staff do more than their contracted hours in the form of OT anyway.

The company gets out of a huge payment which could put it in a dire financial position and tip it over the edge, and me and other PT staff get more contracted hours which simply replaces the extra hours we do on OT. It then means we have extra prep time. Win win.
Last edited by HTPostman on 30 Jul 2020, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 17:56

clashcityrocker wrote:
UNION JACK wrote:Double prep do not throw the whole walk off as the part timer comes in to finish it off,in our office you only put in d2d's,sequence and flats,part timer comes in and preps his own packets .

So you are half way there - now go the whole hog and give the part timer a better contract and let him/her prep the lot.
I particularly don't like coming in to a frame not knowing who has been coughing and spluttering over it for half the morning.


Fair shout but that ain't going to happen,been at royal mail over 20 years and they've always been trying to get a part time workforce and they are professionals and getting people to work for nothing.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 18:31

HTPostman wrote:At some point Royal Mail will have a huge amount of backdated holiday pay to pay to part timers. I’m owed £1500 ish. Some PT will be owed more, some less. Assume an average of £1000 which is being conservative, and 30,000 PT (my estimate) that’s £30 million.

Not sure about other PT staff but I’d gladly accept a one off nominal payment of say £200 in my next wage PLUS have 5 hours added onto my contracted hours (so my 25 hour contract becomes 30 hours). Royal Mail know the majority of PT staff do more than their contracted hours in the form of OT anyway.

The company gets out of a huge payment which could put it in a dire financial position and tip it over the edge, and me and other PT staff get more contracted hours which simply replaces the extra hours we do on OT. It then means we have extra prep time. Win win.


I think we have probably had this conversation before but I will say it again. If you are owed £1500 ish don’t accept £200 with a carrot dangled for afew extra hours contract. Do you think Rico said don’t worry about his gardening leave pay after he got the boot, no chance.

You need to get onto your rep if you are regularly doing more hours as it should be reviewed every 6 months. We have just had afew given full time up here.

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 20:49

HTPostman wrote:Unpopular post of the year coming up....

Trying to steer away from PT vs FT cos we’ve done it to death on here.

Anyway....

At some point Royal Mail will have a huge amount of backdated holiday pay to pay to part timers. I’m owed £1500 ish. Some PT will be owed more, some less. Assume an average of £1000 which is being conservative, and 30,000 PT (my estimate) that’s £30 million.

Not sure about other PT staff but I’d gladly accept a one off nominal payment of say £200 in my next wage PLUS have 5 hours added onto my contracted hours (so my 25 hour contract becomes 30 hours). Royal Mail know the majority of PT staff do more than their contracted hours in the form of OT anyway.

The company gets out of a huge payment which could put it in a dire financial position and tip it over the edge, and me and other PT staff get more contracted hours which simply replaces the extra hours we do on OT. It then means we have extra prep time. Win win.


In my office the payments will cost more to pay the full timers than part timers. Full timers do more overtime than part timers in my office. It isn't just part timers who are owed this holiday pay, the overall cost to royal mail if they have to settle every case individualy will probably bankrupt the company and I bet the cwu know this. There will be an agreement to settle all outstanding payments within a future pay deal with everyone getting a set lump sum, you wait and see

Double Prep

30 Jul 2020, 22:39

citypostie wrote:There will be an agreement to settle all outstanding payments within a future pay deal with everyone getting a set lump sum, you wait and see


But that doesn’t end it though does it. If somebody is owed something in law and a court can rule that, any deal the union does won’t override that fact and people can still claim what they are legal owed. They have always been treading a fine line with these part time contracts they have been offering them expecting them to work 50 hours a week. It’s backfiring in a massive way now. Maybe what they have got away without paying over the years outweighs what they are going to get hit with but yes as you have pointed out people don’t realise how serious this will be for the business. I don’t do much docket maybe 3 or 4 hours a week if I overrun but if i have been getting ripped off in the eyes of the law then yes I certainly want it.

Double Prep

31 Jul 2020, 09:33

Had to double prep for years, always got lumbered with a P/T because managers thought it'd make me work faster because I was on a monstrous walk and always being behind everyone else. Fuc£ing nightmare to do two walks everyday and it should have never been brought in. One of their biggest clangers ever having multiple start times causes so much unnecessary stress and imbalances in overall workloads.

Won't be long before you're all working on the "Dutch model" the union were banging on about 10 years ago with F/T staff doing all the indoor prep and P/T staff only coming in to pick up delivery once it's ready OR from a drop off point somewhere outdoors.

Double Prep

02 Aug 2020, 08:22

citypostie wrote: There will be an agreement to settle all outstanding payments within a future pay deal with everyone getting a set lump sum, you wait and see


That will only cause more problems than it solves. Especially if they make it pro rata which is ridiculous but not unlikely.

Why should I, regularly doing 20-30 hours overtime, accept the same (or potentially smaller) payment as the work to timers? PT/FT whatever. Some people genuinely aren't owed anything, a larger number are owed very little and some people are owed thousands with the majority at varying levels in between. You can't just throw 50p an hour and a few hundred each at the problem.



On topic though, I'd rather someone throw mech in at the most. And only if it's sequenced. I prefer going out later to getting out there and having 10 missorts every bundle, parcels all over the place in a style Jackson Pollock would admire on the frame etc.

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