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Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 12:17

Fdeezy wrote:
wacko74 wrote:I think our job requires a certain level of knowledge and ability above your average shelf stacker and is also more physically demanding out walking the streets in all weathers.

Apart from needing a driving licence, you need the same amount of "knowledge and ability" to do either job. Both pretty much point and shoot roles. I would argue that the job I once had with a well known supermarket was more physically demanding too. I kept dry mostly, but bottles of pop and cases of beer are much heavier than payslips and shoes. (but it was actually crap pay too)


So it takes the same length of time to learn where the Coco Pops and fish fingers go in a supermarket as it does for me to learn the 10+ deep rurals that I currently know?

As well as having to be adaptable enough to be capable of varying just which way you do any individual route on a daily basis in order to ensure all Specials are done by 1pm

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 13:15

clashcityrocker wrote:
barncopxx wrote: - just remember - the CWU got this bonus for us -

Did they?
And then had absolutely no say in how that bonus was paid?

As RM are the actual providers of the money I would imagine they would have quite a say on how it is distributed. The CWU cannot tell RM how to spend their money no more than I can tell you how to spend yours.

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 14:25

wacko74 wrote:
Fdeezy wrote:
wacko74 wrote:I think our job requires a certain level of knowledge and ability above your average shelf stacker and is also more physically demanding out walking the streets in all weathers.

Apart from needing a driving licence, you need the same amount of "knowledge and ability" to do either job. Both pretty much point and shoot roles. I would argue that the job I once had with a well known supermarket was more physically demanding too. I kept dry mostly, but bottles of pop and cases of beer are much heavier than payslips and shoes. (but it was actually crap pay too)


So it takes the same length of time to learn where the Coco Pops and fish fingers go in a supermarket as it does for me to learn the 10+ deep rurals that I currently know?

As well as having to be adaptable enough to be capable of varying just which way you do any individual route on a daily basis in order to ensure all Specials are done by 1pm

If you exclude the d2d, what's an average call rate for them walks?

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 15:04

SpacePhoenix wrote:
wacko74 wrote:
Fdeezy wrote:
wacko74 wrote:I think our job requires a certain level of knowledge and ability above your average shelf stacker and is also more physically demanding out walking the streets in all weathers.

Apart from needing a driving licence, you need the same amount of "knowledge and ability" to do either job. Both pretty much point and shoot roles. I would argue that the job I once had with a well known supermarket was more physically demanding too. I kept dry mostly, but bottles of pop and cases of beer are much heavier than payslips and shoes. (but it was actually crap pay too)


So it takes the same length of time to learn where the Coco Pops and fish fingers go in a supermarket as it does for me to learn the 10+ deep rurals that I currently know?

As well as having to be adaptable enough to be capable of varying just which way you do any individual route on a daily basis in order to ensure all Specials are done by 1pm

If you exclude the d2d, what's an average call rate for them walks?


Not sure just what you mean by ''average call rate'' they vary between around 300-400 delivery points each in total, but obviously I don't attend 100% of the calls every day so the ''average call rate'' is presumably the same as any other typical delivery?

What's ''average call rate'' got do with the point I was making? Comparing the levels of knowledge and ability required to learn, retain and constantly adapt when delivering on multiple deep rural duties of 60-80 miles each compared to the knowledge and ability required to learn where to put the coco pops and where to put the fish fingers when working as a shelf stacker in a supermarket?

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 17:38

I am not sure what's more saddening.

1. Thinking our job is the hardest and that everyone else's job is easier than ours.

2. Or looking down on other jobs because you think its beneath you.

I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


.... and you know what assume does - it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 17:49

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I am not sure what's more saddening.

1. Thinking our job is the hardest and that everyone else's job is easier than ours.

2. Or looking down on other jobs because you think its beneath you.

I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


.... and you know what assume does - it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

:Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause

Lump sum (NPen)

28 Jun 2020, 18:43

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I am not sure what's more saddening.

1. Thinking our job is the hardest and that everyone else's job is easier than ours.

2. Or looking down on other jobs because you think its beneath you.

I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


.... and you know what assume does - it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :wave :wave :wave :Applause :Applause :Applause

Lump sum (NPen)

29 Jun 2020, 06:31

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I am not sure what's more saddening.

1. Thinking our job is the hardest and that everyone else's job is easier than ours.

2. Or looking down on other jobs because you think its beneath you.

I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


.... and you know what assume does - it makes an ASS out of U and ME.



Oh dear you do like your straw men don't you?

I'm not sure where I said ''our job is the hardest'' or ''everyone else's job is easier'' perhaps you can point that out to me?

I wasn't ''looking down'' on other jobs I was simply disputing the claim that our job is no more difficult or complicated than your average unskilled shelf stacking job and therefor presumably we shouldn't be entitled to the slightly higher pay that our job attracts over your typical shelf stacking job.

I wouldn't know what jobs you've previously had that are physically more demanding but earn less money than us, I personally know construction ground workers, utilities workers, trawler crew and Local Authority employees all in physical but ''unskilled'' roles who are on considerably more than our average wage.

And I have done other physically demanding jobs for 10 years prior to becoming a postie, landscaping, drystone walling, forestry work, I spent 2 years laying flagstones, some weighing a quarter of a tonne each, along the Pennine Way in one of the bleakest and most exposed areas of the UK... and none of those jobs left me suffering the constant pain and niggling injuries that I now have after 20 years of being a postie, although possibly I accept that's the cumulative effects of 30 years of physical, outdoor work.

Despite all of the above I don't hate the job, I just get wound up when I hear idiots coming out with the strange notion that we're ''well paid'' and somehow almost not deserving of our hourly rate... as I said previously if our pay was any lower I suspect most of us would be entitled to Tax Credits anyway, that's how ''well paid'' we are.

Lump sum (NPen)

29 Jun 2020, 09:11

The very bottom line to all the moans, criticisms, back stabbing etc, is that each and every one of us came to RM of our OWN choice and even agreed to sign a document called a Contract of Employment AGREEING TO ACCEPT the very terms and conditions that are the subject of all the said moans etc. If we didn't like the terms and conditions why didn't we walk away - then or subsequently? No one or nothing is forcing us to stay.

The reason so very few moaners grow a pair and leave is that they know full well deep down that the pay, along with holiday entitlement / sick pay / CWU representation / conditions etc is quite favourable compared to other courier companies / manual work industries. Sometimes it is "better the devil you know".

Numerous customers on my round have been told in the past few weeks that their jobs are no more and are being made redundant, often with little service so next to nothing in pay off.

I have a relatively close neighbour who has a company van. For weeks and weeks now the van has just stood outside his house and you would presume that this was due to him being furloughed. I actually saw him to speak to last week and he said that although the first few weeks he was indeed furloughed, as time has gone on the company he works for has been forced to close down, he was made redundant with only one years service and the van remains outside his house with a flat battery until the administrators arrange for its collection. He didn't see this coming at all.

So once again, just take a step back for minute in the current situation, reflect on what is going on outside of RM (people / families / jobs etc). If you think this outside is a much better place to be then grow a pair and join them. As the saying goes....ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

Lump sum (NPen)

29 Jun 2020, 10:03

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


Have to disagree in part.

Correct me if I am wrong but IIRC the office you are in didn't fully convert to 2 to a van and a large percentage of the deliveries there are still done the old way so you won't have had to deal with the sh!t storm a full 2 to a van revision brought to a lot of offices in the rest of the country.

If it is the office I think it is then I personally spoke with one of your DOMS years ago whilst out on delivery when we went through 2 to a van revision and they were asking a lot of questions. Been led to believe that our revision had gone swimmingly and couldn't believe the sh!t the revision had caused. Told me if they had their way the revision wouldn't be going ahead in their/your office if it was such a disaster.

I know of people transferring into your office just to get out of toxic offices in this area and all have said it was the best thing they'd ever done because the walks were smaller and going back to working the old way was far better so they had less sh!t to deal with every day.

A lot of peoples perspectives of how good or bad the job is is simply based on how things run in their own office so if it is a bad office then they won't feel the job is worth the pay they get. If it's a good office then everything will feel like its coming up roses everyday and people will enjoy the job.

Not saying everything is perfect in your office as I do have experience of a nasty piece of work manager from your area/office who moved over this way and thought it was acceptable to bully and intimidate an older member of staff and then had a sulk when someone squared up to them for it. And who was part of a clique of managers who deliberately targeted another member of staff for the better part of a year.

A huge number of people in this company are in sh!tty badly run offices and we see that in posts on here and on social media every day but put up with it because they have bills to pay and a family to look after so taking that leap of faith to another job is and can be very scary. Their only outlet for their frustrations is places like this. Otherwise you'd end up with greater numbers of sick absences through breakdowns etc and more managers getting tw@tted when they finally blow a fuse.

Personally it shouldn't be classed as an unskilled job because it's not and that's coming from someone who worked in a highly skilled and physical job before ending up at RM.

But on the other hand what people currently get paid is not worth the mental and physical sh!t they have to put themselves through day after day.

Lump sum (NPen)

29 Jun 2020, 10:47

wacko74 wrote:
Oh dear you do like your straw men don't you?


It wasn't aimed at anybody so no there was no strawman involved.

Lump sum (NPen)

29 Jun 2020, 23:39

Sugar wrote:
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I'll tell you a secret, this job is one of the less stressful ones and least physical I have had, and I have had many in my 40 years of working, but it is one of the best paid. I'll tell you another secret in the form of a parable. "Never knock another person's job, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, as until you do, you can only assume what their actual job entails"


Have to disagree in part.

Correct me if I am wrong but IIRC the office you are in didn't fully convert to 2 to a van and a large percentage of the deliveries there are still done the old way so you won't have had to deal with the sh!t storm a full 2 to a van revision brought to a lot of offices in the rest of the country.

If it is the office I think it is then I personally spoke with one of your DOMS years ago whilst out on delivery when we went through 2 to a van revision and they were asking a lot of questions. Been led to believe that our revision had gone swimmingly and couldn't believe the sh!t the revision had caused. Told me if they had their way the revision wouldn't be going ahead in their/your office if it was such a disaster.

I know of people transferring into your office just to get out of toxic offices in this area and all have said it was the best thing they'd ever done because the walks were smaller and going back to working the old way was far better so they had less sh!t to deal with every day.

A lot of peoples perspectives of how good or bad the job is is simply based on how things run in their own office so if it is a bad office then they won't feel the job is worth the pay they get. If it's a good office then everything will feel like its coming up roses everyday and people will enjoy the job.

Not saying everything is perfect in your office as I do have experience of a nasty piece of work manager from your area/office who moved over this way and thought it was acceptable to bully and intimidate an older member of staff and then had a sulk when someone squared up to them for it. And who was part of a clique of managers who deliberately targeted another member of staff for the better part of a year.

A huge number of people in this company are in sh!tty badly run offices and we see that in posts on here and on social media every day but put up with it because they have bills to pay and a family to look after so taking that leap of faith to another job is and can be very scary. Their only outlet for their frustrations is places like this. Otherwise you'd end up with greater numbers of sick absences through breakdowns etc and more managers getting tw@tted when they finally blow a fuse.

Personally it shouldn't be classed as an unskilled job because it's not and that's coming from someone who worked in a highly skilled and physical job before ending up at RM.

But on the other hand what people currently get paid is not worth the mental and physical sh!t they have to put themselves through day after day.


You make a good point there. Apart from lack of organisation (which I think runs throughout RM) I consider my office to be a good one, managers talk to you fairly, you get paid the hours you work - I’ve been underpaid just once in short of 2 years and it was resolved within minutes of bringing it to my DOMs attention.

But it also varies between each of us. Some here say it’s a terrible office, some say it’s great. I’ve worked at 4 different ones and consider this by far the best.

Everyone takes things their own way though don’t they? Just as an example, the other week a line manager came round each frame. He asked me ‘HTPostman how much overtime will you need today?’ I replied I’d finish 2 hours over my time because I’m Part Time/5 hours a day, ‘great, I’ve put you down for 2 hours, just change it if you’re back early.’

He then asked Joe Bloggs across the way the same question, how much overtime is needed. The reply he got from Mr Bloggs was a real rant ‘so you’re just assuming I’ll do overtime? That’s rude of you, I don’t like how you’ve worded your question, it’s like you’re insisting I do overtime. What if I don’t want to work over? Any more harassment and I’ll put in a grievance against you.’

Lump sum (NPen)

01 Jul 2020, 19:24

I along with many other part timers stepped up to full time hours for the Covid pandemic,we weren't offered the option to sign for temporary full time like at Christmas and yet they still pay us pro rata bonus,the money is not that important it's the principal,if we've worked the same hours we should get the same bonus our health is just as important

Lump sum (NPen)

01 Jul 2020, 20:24

12,000 jobs cut in the UK over the last 48 hours, it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

I’m really not fussed anymore about the ‘missing’ £69 extra I would’ve got if it wasn’t paid pro-rata. I just want to keep my job.

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