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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 14:52

Some people may want to spend time with their family, wife, girlfriend, friends. Later starts do not compute with a lot of family lives. I would rather sit down to a family meal than come home later, knackered then shower eat on my own, say hi then go to bed. No thanks. But hey we all have different situations.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 14:55

1560loopsayear wrote:Some people are now being informed they are going on the later afternoon/early evening delivery shift with only the minimum of notice required. I can see it polarising staff even more if they select some and not others to cover these 'unpalatable' hours of work. It needs to be done on a rota basis to allow for equality and fairness.


How are they deciding who moves to later shift?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:12

A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:18

norris9 wrote:
A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.


What if van shares never return? My gut feeling is that they won't return and split shifts will be here to stay. For those who end up on the afternoon shifts, like it or not they'll just have to get on with it. With the amount of companies axing jobs, it's an employer's market and RM could easily replace anyone who doesn't want to work the afternoon shifts.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before RM force the issue of everyone in deliveries being able to drive

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:26

Everyone that is taken on now has to have a license so only a matter of time with people retiring over time that it will be compulsory to drive for Royal Mail.I see no problem with the split shifts the only time it will be problematic is during the winter months when it’s dark between 4/5

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:30

SpacePhoenix wrote:If RM decide that having split shifts is more economical than van share then chances are van share will be gone for good


How would split shifts be more economical?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:33

norris9 wrote:
A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.


Would you have been employed by RM if you didn't have a driving license?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:42

SpacePhoenix wrote:
norris9 wrote:
A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.


What if van shares never return? My gut feeling is that they won't return and split shifts will be here to stay. For those who end up on the afternoon shifts, like it or not they'll just have to get on with it. With the amount of companies axing jobs, it's an employer's market and RM could easily replace anyone who doesn't want to work the afternoon shifts.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before RM force the issue of everyone in deliveries being able to drive


So you'll be putting your name down for afternoon shifts.

And just getting on with it... right?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 17:54

norris9 wrote:
Acca Dacca wrote:There seems to be a resentment of non drivers from some, but the fact is that either you joined RM after the point you needed a license in which case you knew what you were signing up to or you joined before it was a requirement and willingly chose to drive for RM so you have no one to be angry at but yourself if you have any bitterness or regrets. No one forced you to drive.


No idea what you are talking about.

Nothing to do with resentment of non drivers....

it's just logical that drivers should be paid more with the significant risk they are taking. How many accidents, rollaways, crashes..... tickets for parking, speeding, etc.... happen each year? how many Posties are dismissed each year for a driving incident?

by what you are saying it's clear you would have resentment if drivers were paid more.

Whether I was the passenger or driver I would expect the driver to be paid more.

I'd personally rather be the passenger even if the driver was paid £1 or £2 more per hour.


I wouldnt have resentment if drivers were paid more ( as long as I wasnt paid less than I am currently ) as I have already said that I would rather be a passenger, as someone who never wishes to drive, even if the driver was paid £9 more per hour. I keep my eyes on my own plate. You seem to be the one having issues with being a driver and having more responsibilities than a non driver and think they should be paid less

Again I tell you - if you have any bitterness about non drivers being paid the same as you then that is down to you and you alone as no one forced you to drive or take a job with driving without knowing what the pay was

As a non driver I know, unlike you, I am fortunate to have been employed over a decade a go meaning its not mandatory but I and the rest of us didnt just decide we werent driving - we had the rug pulled from under us and many non drivers actually lost their walk because RM brought in park and loop and suddenly the non drivers had half the number of walks to pick from. You are bitter that non drivers have it easier than drivers but thats just unfortunate timing that we joined long before you did. Just like the guys who joined after the cut off and missed out on the free shares - unfortunate timing.

I get the sense you would love if we were paid less even if you werent paid a penny more just so you could say drivers got paid more than non drivers.
Last edited by Acca Dacca on 06 Jul 2020, 18:03, edited 1 time in total.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:03

Genuine question, why do people not want to drive for RM, surely it's got to be more than the 'not in my contract so I'm not doing it'.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:04

Cucumber wrote:Genuine question, why do people not want to drive for RM, surely it's got to be more than the 'not in my contract so I'm not doing it'.


Ask any driver - they will have a huge list of reasons of what they do more than the non drivers.

Btw many non drivers dont have a license - its not just a case of 'im not driving for Royal mail' and then driving their cars home after their shift - even then thats their right

If you didnt want to drive in general, and didnt feel the need the need for a car for personal use, would you spend a lot of your own money to go through lessons and a test and likely more lessons and more tests if not passed first time, so you could drive when you dont need to and get no benefits or perks out of doing so?

I wouldnt have applied and accepted the job if I needed to drive - simple as that
Last edited by Acca Dacca on 06 Jul 2020, 18:08, edited 4 times in total.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:05

Donskip wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
norris9 wrote:
A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.


What if van shares never return? My gut feeling is that they won't return and split shifts will be here to stay. For those who end up on the afternoon shifts, like it or not they'll just have to get on with it. With the amount of companies axing jobs, it's an employer's market and RM could easily replace anyone who doesn't want to work the afternoon shifts.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before RM force the issue of everyone in deliveries being able to drive


So you'll be putting your name down for afternoon shifts.

And just getting on with it... right?


Shifts in MCs are based around dispatch time, normally ending around the time of the final/main dispatch

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:20

Acca Dacca wrote:
Cucumber wrote:Genuine question, why do people not want to drive for RM, surely it's got to be more than the 'not in my contract so I'm not doing it'.


Ask any driver - they will have a huge list of reasons of what they do more than the non drivers.

Btw many non drivers dont have a license - its not just a case of 'im not driving for Royal mail' and then driving their cars home after their shift - even then thats their right

If you didnt want to drive in general, and didnt feel the need the need for a car for personal use, would you spend a lot of your own money to go through lessons and a test and likely more lessons and more tests if not passed first time, so you could drive when you dont need to and get no benefits or perks out of doing so?

I wouldnt have applied and accepted the job if I needed to drive - simple as that


Thanks, appreciate your honesty. We have quite a few people that drive but won't drive for RM, no issue with that, however they can be very difficult to deal with when management ask them to move duty - especially in times like these current ones - due to staffing problems. They've possibly had a bad experience in the past and removed themselves from driving duties.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:21

i am a non-driver, i can't drive. but i think drivers should get more than a non-driver as they have more responsibility. they have van checks to do, fill with fuel, obviously be more vigilant whilst on the road. if they have a bump they are hauled in for an 'inquisition'..with potential for conduct if found blameworthy. no, i for one would not be in the least bothered if they paid the driver more. in fact i am sure years ago the van drivers used to get something like a tenner more than non drivers. some 'old school' drivers will know that one.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:33

Cucumber wrote:
Acca Dacca wrote:
Cucumber wrote:Genuine question, why do people not want to drive for RM, surely it's got to be more than the 'not in my contract so I'm not doing it'.


Ask any driver - they will have a huge list of reasons of what they do more than the non drivers.

Btw many non drivers dont have a license - its not just a case of 'im not driving for Royal mail' and then driving their cars home after their shift - even then thats their right

If you didnt want to drive in general, and didnt feel the need the need for a car for personal use, would you spend a lot of your own money to go through lessons and a test and likely more lessons and more tests if not passed first time, so you could drive when you dont need to and get no benefits or perks out of doing so?

I wouldnt have applied and accepted the job if I needed to drive - simple as that


Thanks, appreciate your honesty. We have quite a few people that drive but won't drive for RM, no issue with that, however they can be very difficult to deal with when management ask them to move duty - especially in times like these current ones - due to staffing problems. They've possibly had a bad experience in the past and removed themselves from driving duties.


The guys like that in my office came off the driving because they did not need to drive for RM but decided to go through the test for them when they brought in P&L. They then got penalised or conducted or asked to retake the driving test because something went wrong or they had an accident etc and decided it wasnt worth it - they didnt need to drive and RM were getting the benefit out of them with no incentives but were happy to drag them into the office when something went wrong so I dont blame them for thinking 'stuff it - why bother'

Unfortunately, they ended up losing their duty but they thought it worth it in the long run compared to driving for no real benefit only to have more responsibility and more chance of being dragged in to office

The wise ones never drove at all from the start even if they did have a license

And the guys and girls with no licenses had no choice but ive never known of any who got their license because they WANTED to become a driver for RM - if you have no driving license you must then have 10 years plus seniority and that is *usually* enough to get a decent non driving duty
Last edited by Acca Dacca on 06 Jul 2020, 18:39, edited 5 times in total.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:35

daveyeff wrote:i am a non-driver, i can't drive. but i think drivers should get more than a non-driver as they have more responsibility. they have van checks to do, fill with fuel, obviously be more vigilant whilst on the road. if they have a bump they are hauled in for an 'inquisition'..with potential for conduct if found blameworthy. no, i for one would not be in the least bothered if they paid the driver more. in fact i am sure years ago the van drivers used to get something like a tenner more than non drivers. some 'old school' drivers will know that one.


I agree with that entirely

They should be paid more

We shouldnt be paid less than we are now though

I just hate the attitude many drivers have towards non drivers like its our fault they dont get paid more than us and we should be driving

Its not our fault - RM moved the goalposts not us

Most of us took the job because it was a job that didnt require driving and wouldnt have applied if we had to

We know we have it better through luck of when we joined - why would we change that until we need to?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:57

Not looking to stir the pot here but just thought I’d share my experience. I recently asked to come off the driving as it was causing me too much stress! I started in 2002 when I was 16, so couldn’t have drove for the company if I wanted too! However I did the changeover 8 years ago as I thought it’d give me a better chance of getting a duty in the then upcoming repick/revision as I only had 10 years seniority at the time. The last few months have been hell though! Everyday has been like Christmas and I’ve had to do all the large for my walk, the walk I’m paired up with and feed bags to my partner who has selfishly chosen to use his own car (even though he was told by the union AND the management not to) and then I have to watch him drive off straight home while I take everything back to the office. This has resulted to countless rows with the management and my partner and I finally had enough and told them to poke the driving. Now my partner has to do all the large and his own walk and I’m taking a HCT out to my round. 40 minutes more walking a day (20 there and 20 back) so slightly more physical but 100% worth it as the mental stress has more or less vanished over night. I told the manager if I had a time machine I’d never have done the changeover in first place as being a driver means more work, stress and responsibility. I understand that the company is heading towards a mostly parcels business but surely they can’t prejudice against people who can’t or won’t drive for the company?

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 18:59

The driving allowance was £6 a week.
I think it went in 2007.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 19:00

Donskip wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
norris9 wrote:
A2B wrote:I noticed from another of your posts that you have only been with RM a couple of years so you took the job knowing you would be driving and the rate of pay? Maybe you should have considered the risk to reward ratio before you took the job if you don't think it's fair?


Oh yes, of course. I should have never become a postman because someone with a trolley gets paid the same as someone who drives........right. ok man. Yes this is what I should have considered, what a fool I have been. I must resign at once.


By the way, the job does not have to involve driving. You can pick into a van share and be the passenger or you can pick into a trolley job.


What if van shares never return? My gut feeling is that they won't return and split shifts will be here to stay. For those who end up on the afternoon shifts, like it or not they'll just have to get on with it. With the amount of companies axing jobs, it's an employer's market and RM could easily replace anyone who doesn't want to work the afternoon shifts.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before RM force the issue of everyone in deliveries being able to drive


So you'll be putting your name down for afternoon shifts.

And just getting on with it... right?


Exactly. Those saying all is dandy and just get on with it are those full timers who will be working the morning shift.

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

06 Jul 2020, 19:20

1560loopsayear wrote:Some people are now being informed they are going on the later afternoon/early evening delivery shift with only the minimum of notice required. I can see it polarising staff even more if they select some and not others to cover these 'unpalatable' hours of work. It needs to be done on a rota basis to allow for equality and fairness.


Equality and fairness is all good but no point having full timers starting later when the work is there first thing in a morning to be done or you end up paying overtime out needlessly like in my office because there aren't enough full timers to get mail ready to be delivered with full timers doing the later shift

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