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Rico

16 May 2020, 14:34

I would be very surprised and disappointed if the bonus is not at the very least paid subject to hours worked rather than contracted hours.

It's enough of a slap in the face to treat part-time members as second class employees but to treat those actually working full-time hours worse than contracted full-time staff would be disgraceful.

Rico

16 May 2020, 14:42

south London postie wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
rogersh wrote:Rather than continually reaching for the copy and paste function let's debate the reasons why.

The union has always seen part-time members as a sub species, a lower lifeform to be put up with until such times they become real members. LTFTs they are called. Less Than Full Time.

That's a deeply ingrained cultural intolerance.


Agree. Makes me laugh; I mean, how many union meeting organised and finished - before part-timers have even arrived for work - do you need to understand the reality. But when it comes to balloting and meetings at the gate, 'we've all in it together'.


To be fair, at our place union meetings always have to be held outside work time and I imagine that is true for the vast majority of offices so even full timers have to come in early if they want to attend. I appreciate there is a difference between coming in 30 minutes ahead of your start time and having to come in 2 or 3 hours early but it’s not as though meetings happen every week and, unless you have other commitments before you start work, there is nothing to stop you attending the meeting.

Also our rep has his own duty and the Dom isn’t going to allow him to just stop working for 30 minutes in his duty time to give another gate meeting for part timers, so his hands are tied to a large extent.

Rico

16 May 2020, 15:53

Today a colleague reminded me that when the free shares were allocated part-timers were awarded an amount based on the hours worked during a specific period, not on their contracted hours.

As the four pillars agreement states "Part time workers could have a variation of contract above their current conditioned hours up to full time for specified periods of time based on the requirements for regular overtime and seasonal specific events."

Perhaps the scope was there for a variation in contracted hours so those who are aggrieved the bonus payment is pro-rata would have received some sort of parity.

Rico

16 May 2020, 17:52

Scum and Cream rise to the top.
There has been little cream in Royal Mail for years. No Doms fighting their own, or our corner at ground level.
Too afraid to take on the likes of Greene N Back..

Then there are those colleagues, you know the ones, who put in for management because they couldn't or wouldn't do the work and see sitting in the office as a better alternative. Then have the audacity to tell you how easy their ex job and workload was, and how great they are. Forgetting that you know all of their bulls1t and tricks not to do the work.

Rico

16 May 2020, 18:05

CHUCKYPIG wrote:
HTPostman wrote:And for gods sake start sticking up a bit for PTers. In a decade there’ll probably be more PT than FT staff, no good ignoring PTers then wondering why in 10 years none of them are in the union.


Agree. All the union meetings at our place are held before us part timers even start work. I mean FFS the union could at least pretend to care about us. And good point the number of part timers is every increasing so if the union don't have our back why should we support them?

Glad Rico is gone. Expect the worse but hope for the best. So I won't expect anything but I live in hope....


Our Union held gate meetings for all PT and FT staff but when we had work,time learning sessions the part-timers were not invited in, presumably because managers believed that it might add to overtime or lead to cut-offs. But PTers don't help themselves. Many come in early to help prep their own duty so they can get out the door and most don't want to have these work/time sessions.

Part-timers never get hours reviewed unless there is usually a revision. The CWU want a shorter working week and they want all staff on the same number of hours. That is their answer to getting all members unionised. The problem isn't the Union,it's the company themselves. They have even recruited staff on 20 hours contracts.

Rico

16 May 2020, 22:08

Plenty of full-timers at our office doing 60+ hour's a week. Should they receive more than the £200?.Any bonus is paid on contracted hour's, simple. Lot of good part timers as well but to be honest the majority are killing the job at our place, coming in early and working for free. Always makes me smile when they then complain about bonuses. Bye Rico. Is it back to GLS.

Rico

17 May 2020, 09:02

postslippete wrote:
Our Union held gate meetings for all PT and FT staff but when we had work,time learning sessions the part-timers were not invited in, presumably because managers believed that it might add to overtime or lead to cut-offs. But PTers don't help themselves. Many come in early to help prep their own duty so they can get out the door and most don't want to have these work/time sessions.

Part-timers never get hours reviewed unless there is usually a revision. The CWU want a shorter working week and they want all staff on the same number of hours. That is their answer to getting all members unionised. The problem isn't the Union,it's the company themselves. They have even recruited staff on 20 hours contracts.[


Tell me about it mate. I got stiched up with one of these a few years ago (Office Transfer) :d'oh! It was a hard slog back to FT, as you say through several Office Revisions, but then only then because we'd lost so many staff through Posties not willing to live with thier crap PT contracts and having to go elsewhere to make ends meet. :sad:

Some FT colleagues pumping out 15 + hours OT a week is a disgrace IMO, when you've got other PT colleagues struggling to get their hours increased. TBH I'm amazed they've got the energy .... I'm knackered most weeks just doing my normal duty ......I can only assume they've got some pretty easy duties (same goes for people working their days off) :hmmmm

I realise RM has it's own agenga, and really doesn't like FTers (preferring a PT workforce who can "Flex Up" as required) but common sense would suggest a much fairer allocation of contracted hours. Note I didn't say fairer allocation of work, because I believe the PTers are already doing more than their paid share of the work. :cuppa

Rico

17 May 2020, 10:51

us full timers getting a right kicking on here . Its not our fault the way r m are , a lot of us (oldies, moaners, past its) have put up with our fair share of kickings over the years too . If i hadnt been here a long time and leaving soon no way i would stay in this job the way its going. The pro rata thing is a joke btw

Rico

17 May 2020, 10:58

im part time and i took the job because its part time ( and pays as well as my previous full time min wage job), As it was advertised as part time why are people so surprised when thats the hours they work? If you cant afford to live on part time wages dont take a part time job!

Also i know a lot of you complain about part timers starting early, but ( in my office at least) its done on duration and not start/finish times, in fact my contract doesn't mention start/finish times or length of any day. it just says we want you to work xx hrs per week.

Rico

17 May 2020, 11:02

adamanti wrote:Plenty of full-timers at our office doing 60+ hour's a week. Should they receive more than the £200?.Any bonus is paid on contracted hour's, simple. Lot of good part timers as well but to be honest the majority are killing the job at our place, coming in early and working for free. Always makes me smile when they then complain about bonuses. Bye Rico. Is it back to GLS.


Plenty offices where part time staff are working more contracted hours than full time staff are just now, so it's not really simple.

Rico

17 May 2020, 11:46

Part time job part time hours thats it , but rm do abuse it

Rico

17 May 2020, 11:57

Plenty of OT to go round. Point is what kind.

FT get offered ghost and cream, PT get leftovers, and get paid for the exact hours they do. All sorted out hours before PT arrive at work.
Last edited by south London postie on 17 May 2020, 11:58, edited 1 time in total.

Rico

17 May 2020, 11:58

Dorset Plodder wrote:
postslippete wrote:



Some FT colleagues pumping out 15 + hours OT a week is a disgrace IMO, when you've got other PT colleagues struggling to get their hours increased. TBH I'm amazed they've got the energy .... I'm knackered most weeks just doing my normal duty ......I can only assume they've got some pretty easy duties (same goes for people working their days off) :hmmmm



Agree bud, in my experience these are the workers who will take 6 hours to do 2 hours work milking the company dry :crazy:

Rico

17 May 2020, 14:14

I know we are going off topic a bit but I think the only way to distribute OT fairly is to put a complete end to ghost OT. Most PT staff don’t do ghost OT anyway, so they are used to being paid for the hours they do. That way if those who are used to getting 2 hours for 1 hour of work complain and don’t want to do it for the actual time it takes, you have a 2nd tier of PT staff most of whom are willing to step up and do it.

It’s ridiculous that it’s common practice to have people finishing before their duty time and going home early, while there’s work to be done which is then being paid at an enhanced level to others.

One guy at our depot recently did 3 rounds in 1 day, he got 20 hours for it. He was out the door 8.30 and was done just after 7pm. 20 hours for 10 and a bit hours work!

There are rural rounds here where only a couple of people know them, so if the cover guy is on holiday the regular guy uses it to his advantage and says he’ll only come in if he’s paid X hours. Pretty much holding management to ransom who know otherwise the tracked and specials (plus the rest of the round) will be failed.

For the record I’ve done ghost OT just once, when I van shared with a much more experienced colleague who demanded we get an extra 2 hours each. When I told him I’m not fussed I just want paying for what I do he told me to shut up and let him barter.

We can’t criticise managers, the union and unfair distribution of bonuses when we continuing this practice.

Rico

17 May 2020, 14:47

2yearpostie wrote:im part time and i took the job because its part time ( and pays as well as my previous full time min wage job), As it was advertised as part time why are people so surprised when thats the hours they work? If you cant afford to live on part time wages dont take a part time job!

Also i know a lot of you complain about part timers starting early, but ( in my office at least) its done on duration and not start/finish times, in fact my contract doesn't mention start/finish times or length of any day. it just says we want you to work xx hrs per week.


I'm part time and I'm part time because I really, really like walking and delivering post and there aren't any alternative career options in this department so until a full time position walking and posting letters presents itself, I do it part time and grab overtime which when I took the job I was assured would be plentiful. It works OK but I am very aware of the unfairness between full and part timers. Definition of a full time royal mail worker IME: Someone who starts and finishes 2 hours earlier than part time royal mail workers but gets more money, including when they're not even there due to leave, sickness and now self isolation, whilst being covered by part time reserves. It is a piss take. Even the delivery supplement is more for full timers when we do exactly the same deliveries, just as many households and IME do the bulk of the graft of extra loops and parcels that want covering. I'd argue that part timers often do more delivering than full timers.

Rico

17 May 2020, 15:01

Are you for real? Go back to being a paper boy thatl suit youre needs

Rico

17 May 2020, 15:04

HTPostman wrote:I know we are going off topic a bit but I think the only way to distribute OT fairly is to put a complete end to ghost OT. Most PT staff don’t do ghost OT anyway, so they are used to being paid for the hours they do. That way if those who are used to getting 2 hours for 1 hour of work complain and don’t want to do it for the actual time it takes, you have a 2nd tier of PT staff most of whom are willing to step up and do it.

It’s ridiculous that it’s common practice to have people finishing before their duty time and going home early, while there’s work to be done which is then being paid at an enhanced level to others.

One guy at our depot recently did 3 rounds in 1 day, he got 20 hours for it. He was out the door 8.30 and was done just after 7pm. 20 hours for 10 and a bit hours work!

There are rural rounds here where only a couple of people know them, so if the cover guy is on holiday the regular guy uses it to his advantage and says he’ll only come in if he’s paid X hours. Pretty much holding management to ransom who know otherwise the tracked and specials (plus the rest of the round) will be failed.

For the record I’ve done ghost OT just once, when I van shared with a much more experienced colleague who demanded we get an extra 2 hours each. When I told him I’m not fussed I just want paying for what I do he told me to shut up and let him barter.

We can’t criticise managers, the union and unfair distribution of bonuses when we continuing this practice.

The LAT app on the PDA is a work around for lack of knowledge. You can scan anything with a barcode and it will then organise it and set out a route. It's not brilliant by any means but it gets you on the right road and then requires a bit of hunting for the property. So the next time a rural round can't get covered at least the tracked, specials and 2d barcodes can get delivered.

Rico

17 May 2020, 15:11

Chelseablue wrote:Are you for real? Go back to being a paper boy thatl suit youre needs


Yes, seriously, I didn't phrase it very well but I have a lot of energy and want a job that involves someone paying me to walk 8 miles a day. There aren't many alternatives, lol, so I figure I have to put up with the drawbacks like never being able to get a full time contract.

Rico

17 May 2020, 17:29

nuisance wrote:
2yearpostie wrote:im part time and i took the job because its part time ( and pays as well as my previous full time min wage job), As it was advertised as part time why are people so surprised when thats the hours they work? If you cant afford to live on part time wages dont take a part time job!

Also i know a lot of you complain about part timers starting early, but ( in my office at least) its done on duration and not start/finish times, in fact my contract doesn't mention start/finish times or length of any day. it just says we want you to work xx hrs per week.


I'm part time and I'm part time because I really, really like walking and delivering post and there aren't any alternative career options in this department so until a full time position walking and posting letters presents itself, I do it part time and grab overtime which when I took the job I was assured would be plentiful. It works OK but I am very aware of the unfairness between full and part timers. Definition of a full time royal mail worker IME: Someone who starts and finishes 2 hours earlier than part time royal mail workers but gets more money, including when they're not even there due to leave, sickness and now self isolation, whilst being covered by part time reserves. It is a piss take. Even the delivery supplement is more for full timers when we do exactly the same deliveries, just as many households and IME do the bulk of the graft of extra loops and parcels that want covering. I'd argue that part timers often do more delivering than full timers.

When I started everyone was full time it is not the full time you should vent your anger at but the management as to the delivery supplement it is not for delivering them but prepping them and a small part of early start supplement pay for starting before 06:00 hours when the deal to make later starts. As to full time your best bet is a reduction of the working week as your pay will increase more, And the work that cannot be done by the reduction of full time staff would have to be taken up somewhere presumably by those who need extra hours.

Rico

17 May 2020, 17:48

Two full-timers sharing two walks can jump on their frames after their breaks and have them bagged-up and walking out the door to load up the van when Two part-timers sharing two walks are just coming in to start their shift - putting them a good hour or more behind the full timers, but are still expected to clear the same volume of work and finish at the same time. How does that work out? As long as this keep happening their will be no harmony and 'we're all in this together' between staff. Probably just what Royal Mail want. We need mandatory re-picks were two walk duties shared can only have 1 full-timer paired with 1 part-timer... and clock-in/out cards.

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