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hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:04

This has been the plan all along, this crisis has merely accelerated things.
Our office has tried various methods without any real success and there are plenty staff now just starting in the street, which is incredibly inefficient as they are only doing the delivery part of their work day - a mixture of 30-38 hour a week contracts only working a fraction of their hours. There are other options available, but I think people are being very short sighted in agreeing to the easiest one.
It pains me to say it, but shared vans has gone for good, and if you don't drive and theres no work for you near the office........

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:11

Well this is why some of us think it's a hidden agenda.....hence the title

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:17

Celgar wrote:Seems odd that only Davey's office has received this brainstorming meeting and no one else has heard a peep. It does indeed sound like the LAT model but on a wider scale.
I have noticed others such as dustmen, ambulance staff, firemen, police, just eat delivery cars etc all have two or more people in them. Why can't Posties be allowed to carry on sharing vans as they only together in the vans for very short periods of time when they travel to their next loops ??? These other vehicles have multiple people in them for most of their duty spans. Why have we been picked on in this respect but others can carry on doing their jobs ???

We just got told this today at 9am celgar,......I'm sure it will be announced in other offices in the next few days or weeks

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:33

themailman wrote:This has been the plan all along, this crisis has merely accelerated things.
Our office has tried various methods without any real success and there are plenty staff now just starting in the street, which is incredibly inefficient as they are only doing the delivery part of their work day - a mixture of 30-38 hour a week contracts only working a fraction of their hours. There are other options available, but I think people are being very short sighted in agreeing to the easiest one.
It pains me to say it, but shared vans has gone for good, and if you don't drive and theres no work for you near the office........


So Covid19 is RMs masterplan to change duties, bit extreme even by corporate standards.

What do you consider the other options available? I say bring back small local delivery offices and bikes, that will solve the problem :whistle

I may be reading your posts wrong but you do seem to have a poblem with non drivers

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:43

A2B wrote:
themailman wrote:This has been the plan all along, this crisis has merely accelerated things.
Our office has tried various methods without any real success and there are plenty staff now just starting in the street, which is incredibly inefficient as they are only doing the delivery part of their work day - a mixture of 30-38 hour a week contracts only working a fraction of their hours. There are other options available, but I think people are being very short sighted in agreeing to the easiest one.
It pains me to say it, but shared vans has gone for good, and if you don't drive and theres no work for you near the office........


So Covid19 is RMs masterplan to change duties, bit extreme even by corporate standards.

What do you consider the other options available? I say bring back small local delivery offices and bikes, that will solve the problem :whistle

I may be reading your posts wrong but you do seem to have a poblem with non drivers


You don't think that RM in the future wants to move from the current set up to less vans and split shifts? That's what I mean.
Non drivers I have no issue with whatsoever, I apologise if it comes across like that, I just feel that we are moving far more to a parcel company that does a few letters here and there. Why do you think driving is a condition for new entrants into the job these days.

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:46

A2B wrote:So Covid19 is RMs masterplan to change duties, bit extreme even by corporate standards.


haha, is what I'm thinking too.

They'd be doubling fuel costs and doubling wear and tear in getting out to the round and getting back.

And again.... is delivering in the dark sensible?

Are the public going to be ok with getting their post at 7pm?

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:48

Picked on ffs . You do know theres a few ppl dead in this country and around the world ? Or would you rather take that chance , i know i value my life not too take that chance .

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:49

Jesus. We're probably only at the start of this catastrophe. Do you think when they relax lockdown in maybe three weeks that all "this virus shite" is going to go away? It didn't and still hasn't for all those who died and all those who are going to die. 800+ again yesterday.

A vaccine is at best going to be available in maybe October but that's the best case scenario. Given they haven't been able to create one for the common cold, Mers or Sars (all coronavirus') It's not looking good. A treatment is going to be even longer.

When lockdown is lifted there is going to be a massive re-infection and then more lockdown because people aren't taking it seriously.


Perhaps the Company has realised this and is trying to come to some plan to mitigate it. I'm not reading anything into this until we've beaten this virus.

daveyeff wrote:2021? so no football, no pubs, no race meetings, no holidays abroad till 2021. and no van sharing.


There's going to be no escaping this virus until vaccine or treatment. I don't fancy sitting packed like a sardine on an aeroplane with 300 other people, any one of which might have the virus.

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:53

No it isn't a hidden agenda; some sort of social distancing will probably be needed till a vaccine for this virus is discovered which is at least a year away according to Chris Witty today, meaning van sharing will probably be banned for that length of time. Their agenda is not hidden, it's to remove tracked and oversized parcels out of the main delivery which, in my opinion, will be a complete disaster for us.

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 20:56

themailman wrote:I just feel that we are moving far more to a parcel company that does a few letters here and there. Why do you think driving is a condition for new entrants into the job these days.


Driving is a condition for new entrants because that's part of the job. The people that don't drive can be a burden to Royal Mail, the one that walk with trolleys can't deliver large packets so RM have to pay someone else to go out in a van with the parcels that they'd be otherwise delivering if they could drive. With non drivers there is less flexibility in where you can put them in times like these. It would be silly to employ non drivers.


Are letters going to drop off that dramatically that we'd only be delivering 'a few letters here and there'? or are you thinking some other company is going to take over from us as THE mail deliverers of the UK?

or maybe Royal Mail have no choice but to charge excessive sums for sending letters simply because it's not affordable for them to deliver letters and therefore the amount of letters people send will fall off a cliff? Maybe it will go that way.

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 21:00

daveyeff wrote:Well this is why some of us think it's a hidden agenda.....hence the title


Let's face it. Whatever path we go down RM could use it against us...
Don't forget the CWU agreed to a 7pm finish in the 4 pillars agreement. However, at this moment in time we have RM specifying a 9pm last delivery.

I don't see it so much as a hidden agenda, as more a game of chess between Union and RM. Except the game's supposed to be on hold at the moment.

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 21:31

Celgar wrote:Seems odd that only Davey's office has received this brainstorming meeting and no one else has heard a peep. It does indeed sound like the LAT model but on a wider scale.
I have noticed others such as dustmen, ambulance staff, firemen, police, just eat delivery cars etc all have two or more people in them. Why can't Posties be allowed to carry on sharing vans as they only together in the vans for very short periods of time when they travel to their next loops ??? These other vehicles have multiple people in them for most of their duty spans. Why have we been picked on in this respect but others can carry on doing their jobs ???


Would you be happy to share a van with someone else in the current climate? Its not just a short trip between loops anyway which is enough to catch the virus anyhow but what about the travel out to the first loop from the office ?

hidden agenda.

22 Apr 2020, 21:32

themailman wrote:
A2B wrote:
themailman wrote:This has been the plan all along, this crisis has merely accelerated things.
Our office has tried various methods without any real success and there are plenty staff now just starting in the street, which is incredibly inefficient as they are only doing the delivery part of their work day - a mixture of 30-38 hour a week contracts only working a fraction of their hours. There are other options available, but I think people are being very short sighted in agreeing to the easiest one.
It pains me to say it, but shared vans has gone for good, and if you don't drive and theres no work for you near the office........


So Covid19 is RMs masterplan to change duties, bit extreme even by corporate standards.

What do you consider the other options available? I say bring back small local delivery offices and bikes, that will solve the problem :whistle

I may be reading your posts wrong but you do seem to have a poblem with non drivers


You don't think that RM in the future wants to move from the current set up to less vans and split shifts? That's what I mean.
Non drivers I have no issue with whatsoever, I apologise if it comes across like that, I just feel that we are moving far more to a parcel company that does a few letters here and there. Why do you think driving is a condition for new entrants into the job these days.


When Moya Greene took over the first thing she announced was that RM was now a parcel delivery company who also delivered letters. If there are less letters to deliver (and there are) what do we do?

Driving has been a requirement for many years now and it makes sense but there is still plenty of work for non drivers at the moment and over time non drivers will make up very little of the workforce.

Almost everything being brought up in this thread has been spoken of for years now, i seriously doubt RM are looking to push through plans at the moment in fact i think they are more worried about everything falling around their ears like a lot of other companies.

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 08:02

I don’t think there is a hidden agenda more this has just landed on RMs lap. I to think the job will change for good . No more 2nd wave boxes right now which is what RM wanted along .Different shift patterns for full and part time staff . Getting rid of van share would be widely accepted anyway as most staff prefer to work alone anyway .

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 09:18

Before we all start lambasting the cheek of non drivers not being able to drive remember the vast majority were employed at a time when they didnt have to - please remember it was Royal Mail who moved the goalposts and changed the job - some act like a bunch of posties just decided it was easier not to drive so said 'take me off the driving those mug drivers can do all the hard work' when the reality is most have been in the job 10, 20, 30 plus years and never had to drive for the majority of their service

I dont see Royal Mail offering to put non drivers through their lessons and pay for their tests so why should non drivers pay out their own pocket when it was the business who changed the job specs and not them?

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 09:48

I think there's about 4 or 5 in my office of about 130 who can't drive.
I doubt it's that widespread that it would cause the business a major headache.

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 10:12

Acca Dacca wrote:Before we all start lambasting the cheek of non drivers not being able to drive remember the vast majority were employed at a time when they didnt have to - please remember it was Royal Mail who moved the goalposts and changed the job - some act like a bunch of posties just decided it was easier not to drive so said 'take me off the driving those mug drivers can do all the hard work' when the reality is most have been in the job 10, 20, 30 plus years and never had to drive for the majority of their service

I dont see Royal Mail offering to put non drivers through their lessons and pay for their tests so why should non drivers pay out their own pocket when it was the business who changed the job specs and not them?



Bang on...23 years in the job a walker now out myself on delivery with a trolley,,phone driver when im nearly finished and he comes round and drops of more bags there does seem some resentment from some drivers about this as they think they are doing more though

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 10:20

chickenwittle wrote:I to think the job will change for good . No more 2nd wave boxes right now which is what RM wanted along .

Long term that'll mean no iLSMs/IMPs being run in MCs on night shifts apart from if they get used for wave 1 sequencing, so that will be 3 staff per iLSM/IMP (is it normally 3 per machine for IMPs - we don't have any IMPs) on non-mech work and for CSS staff, either they'll be on non-mech work after wave 1 is done for the rest of their shift or there hours will get changed

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 16:40

So on the one hand we have a thread entitled "Single vans to stop" where the OP has been told they are going to revert to van share and on the other we have this thread where RM are apparently introducing something underhand by not ever reverting to van share.
They can't both be right.
I think Davey you are getting your knickers in a twist over nothing. Prematurely.

hidden agenda.

23 Apr 2020, 16:49

97gaz wrote:Jesus. We're probably only at the start of this catastrophe. Do you think when they relax lockdown in maybe three weeks that all "this virus shite" is going to go away? It didn't and still hasn't for all those who died and all those who are going to die. 800+ again yesterday.

A vaccine is at best going to be available in maybe October but that's the best case scenario. Given they haven't been able to create one for the common cold, Mers or Sars (all coronavirus') It's not looking good. A treatment is going to be even longer.

When lockdown is lifted there is going to be a massive re-infection and then more lockdown because people aren't taking it seriously.


Perhaps the Company has realised this and is trying to come to some plan to mitigate it. I'm not reading anything into this until we've beaten this virus.

daveyeff wrote:2021? so no football, no pubs, no race meetings, no holidays abroad till 2021. and no van sharing.


There's going to be no escaping this virus until vaccine or treatment. I don't fancy sitting packed like a sardine on an aeroplane with 300 other people, any one of which might have the virus.

they are talking about letting the kids go back to school in May. so that's a precursor for a re-infection if ever there was one. kids are 'super spreaders'

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