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Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:27

Is there a recognised procedure for this?
500 new houses nearing completion, no plan in place for how they are to be delivered.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:36

Who's delivering the ones that are occupied at the moment?

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:39

Bahia Feliz wrote:Who's delivering the ones that are occupied at the moment?


They are quite spread out, so it seems to be anyone who is back even slightly early, although quite a few of us never have that issue. Not really a plan for going forward.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:40

Suppose managers used PDA actuals to show that a walk could take more houses? Would that be fair enough? If so then it's definitely fair for the reverse to happen (a postie using them to prove that they're walk cannot be added to).

However if one would oppose managers making use of actuals in that way then it's very hard to see a way that you could argue for delivery staff to.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:41

Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 17:45

leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)


I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 19:54

themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)


I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.


You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 20:31

citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)


I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.


You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 20:35

SpacePhoenix wrote:
citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)


I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.


You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.


Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 21:46

citypostie wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)


I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.


You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.


Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it

I can see RM trying to bring in outdoor performance standards within the next year (maybe 2). It's only a matter of time before they try bringing in performance standards for very section in every office (and every type of office)

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

13 Feb 2020, 23:52

3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 07:38

streets97 wrote:3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.


Runner on a duties that's does two walks packets that doorstops them all versus someone that does it at a sensible pace and does try neighbours etc....

Not closing gates....door stopping and having 'missorts" for those pesky houses at the far end of the loop saves a lot of time.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 15:58

DGH wrote:Suppose managers used PDA actuals to show that a walk could take more houses? Would that be fair enough? If so then it's definitely fair for the reverse to happen (a postie using them to prove that they're walk cannot be added to).

However if one would oppose managers making use of actuals in that way then it's very hard to see a way that you could argue for delivery staff to.


How can anyone you use data you do not have to add more delivery points?
The PDA cannot show how long it would take to deliver to new addresses, whether the new delivery points situated behind lots of hedges and each with their separate path, or on hilly terrain which always takes longer to cover (PDAs only show 2D not how much elevation there is).

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 17:09

They could potentially use the information they do have. If the pda actuals showed that there was, for example, around 25 minutes per day not being worked then very clearly that walk could take around 25 minutes extra work.

You could then estimate how many new houses that might be. And then adjust as necessary with the new actuals.

Not rocket science.

NB, I'm not commenting on whether or not I think using actuals to adjust walks is good or bad as a concept, merely that if one accepts they should be used to prove that a walk is 'at capacity' then there can't logically be an argument against their use to prove a walk is 'below capacity'. However I don't doubt that some people will attempt to so argue . . .

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 18:01

streets97 wrote:3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.


It really isn't as proved with by these walks in my office, 1 person did one of them and ghosted the other got back 3pm, the regulars get back at 3 or later on average or even later. Do the maths yourself one person can do them faster than the 2 regulars together! Yes he didn't use a trolley and they do but even so it shows the difference between the speeds people work at unless a trolley adds about half an hour onto every loop? Also when people argue about equal workloads that fact one person can do as much work as 2 people in the same time at the moment and no questions get asked really does make you think royal mail will push for standards otherwise when the clocking in/out and only paid for hours worked comes in everyone will just work like the 2 people I've mentioned

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 20:55

Is the PDA going to show a consistent finish of 20 mins + per day before your finishing time ?
If so then get ready for some new houses, if not then it would be foolish of them to add this to a duty without taking something off of it at the same time.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

14 Feb 2020, 21:03

smartecosse wrote:
streets97 wrote:3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.


Runner on a duties that's does two walks packets that doorstops them all versus someone that does it at a sensible pace and does try neighbours etc....

Not closing gates....door stopping and having 'missorts" for those pesky houses at the far end of the loop saves a lot of time.
plus has a meal relief and doesn't come in an hour early

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

16 Feb 2020, 18:27

Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it[/quote]


Regular duty holder on trolley round took 6 hours to deliver the other day.
Everyone who covers (no they dont run) get it done in 3 hours max, even on a busy day. 2.5 hours takes most of the covers.
The rounds are so unequal in our office its a joke! Would take this postie would take 8+ hours to do some of rounds i do based on her duty pace.
Outdoor performance reviews cant come quick enough in my opinion. Otherwise ill slow down to the pace of the slowest postie.

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

16 Feb 2020, 18:49

Bobby39 wrote:Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it



Regular duty holder on trolley round took 6 hours to deliver the other day.
Everyone who covers (no they dont run) get it done in 3 hours max, even on a busy day. 2.5 hours takes most of the covers.
The rounds are so unequal in our office its a joke! Would take this postie would take 8+ hours to do some of rounds i do based on her duty pace.
Outdoor performance reviews cant come quick enough in my opinion. Otherwise ill slow down to the pace of the slowest postie.[/quote]

All rounds are equal, just some more equal than others!

There are some rounds here where you’ll be bringing round a york full of packets and have to go back for more, 1500 calls, 16 bags (8 each), 20+ specials a day. On the same aisle, a round with 400 calls (5 bags), and you can just tuck the parcels under your arm and carry them round no need to bring the york round. If you get more than a couple of specials a day it’s a bad day.

I wonder how soon we’ll see LED frames with workloads based on your stats...

Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

16 Feb 2020, 21:37

How many walks back onto the new estate?

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