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National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

10 Aug 2017, 18:38

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail.

The CWU National negotiators and Royal Mail have had meetings over the last three days.

These meetings ended without agreement. On the key issues we are still miles away from an acceptable agreement.

Due to the pressure from the CWU who have held membership meetings across the U.K , Royal Mail have made the following concessions.

They have withdrawn their proposals to stop sick pay for the first 3 days.
They have withdrawn their proposal on monthly pay.
They have said they would not take the legacy payments.
They have given commitments over retaining the three tiers of the IR framework.
They have agreed in principle to the 35 hour working week but without either the detail or timeline.

Be in no doubt none of these have been given freely by Royal Mail. They have reluctantly conceded because of the power of the union.
However we are still miles apart on the following :

Pensions Royal Mail have rejected the WINRs scheme and any prospect of having all the workforce in one pension scheme. Additionally the pension offer from Royal Mail is still an unacceptable cut in pension benefits for all in the DB scheme.

Pay - Royal Mail are still saying that any pay rise must be linked to cuts in hours in all offices based on performance related pay.

Review of Pipeline - There has been very little progress and Royal Mail position on every office moving start times 2 hour later is still on the table.

The CWU's postal executive will now meet next Tuesday and agree the timetable for an Industrial Action Ballot.

The timetable which the CWU will be given is that the lawful 2 weeks notice for an industrial action ballot will be given in early September and ballot papers will start landing around the third week of September.

This timetable will be shared with Royal Mail and allow them an opportunity before September to reach an acceptable agreement on all the issues at the heart of this potential dispute.

The ball is now in their court. There are further talks next Wednesday.

In the meantime is essential that you communicate this to the membership. Please text , WhatsApp , email or photocopy.

We need to keep the pressure up and force Royal Mail into more concessions.

Unity is Strength
A Statement by the London Divisional Committee


National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

10 Aug 2017, 20:29

Jeez - so no action until mid October at the earliest ! Why the 5 week gap between the meeting on tuesday & ballot papers being delivered ? :arrrghhh

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

10 Aug 2017, 20:44

JKSmudge wrote:Jeez - so no action until mid October at the earliest ! Why the 5 week gap between the meeting on tuesday & ballot papers being delivered ? :arrrghhh


Because progress has been made. Why send out ballot papers when Royal Mail are conceding on the proposals outlined? A long way to go but it's a decent start.

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

10 Aug 2017, 20:50

Also in a privatised industry, the "Threat" of a strike is more damaging than an actual strike. The threat is uncertain and ambiguous making it difficult for Royal Mail and shareholders to make decisions. Whilst announcing a strike actually makes it easier for the shareholders to make decisions on whether to jump ship or buy more shares.

In this case, the CWU is giving RM a longer rope and more time to think. :thumbup

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

10 Aug 2017, 22:49

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Also in a privatised industry, the "Threat" of a strike is more damaging than an actual strike. The threat is uncertain and ambiguous making it difficult for Royal Mail and shareholders to make decisions. Whilst announcing a strike actually makes it easier for the shareholders to make decisions on whether to jump ship or buy more shares.

In this case, the CWU is giving RM a longer rope and more time to think. :thumbup


In the long run a lot of full timers might get hung with that longer rope !

Dish served cold and all that !

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 12:07

They have said they would not take the legacy payments.

But in the blurb I got today it says they are still offering to buy out the legacy payments?

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 15:23

clashcityrocker wrote:They have said they would not take the legacy payments.

But in the blurb I got today it says they are still offering to buy out the legacy payments?


It depends if you're a taker or a giver.

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 15:43

LouBarlow wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:Jeez - so no action until mid October at the earliest ! Why the 5 week gap between the meeting on tuesday & ballot papers being delivered ? :arrrghhh


Because progress has been made. Why send out ballot papers when Royal Mail are conceding on the proposals outlined? A long way to go but it's a decent start.


Which is just how you're supposed to think.
RM will concede the small immaterial stuff and when the impasse is reached, point to how much it's shifted it's position and now it's time for the CWU to do likewise.
All this old guff about jittery shareholders is just that, guff.
Most of the RM shares are in the hands of pension funds etc who take long-term views, and who don't buy and sell on the whiff of a controversy.

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 15:54

On legacy payments the offer is you can continue to retain them for the duration of your Royal Mail service or accept a buy out which is still too be negotaitaed.

There will be no agreement until pay , pensions and the pipeline issues are resolved and we are miles and miles apart on there.

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 16:14

How many times does monthly pay get thrown into the pot before someone pulls it out, bites it and calls fake?

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 16:20

dingo wrote:On legacy payments the offer is you can continue to retain them for the duration of your Royal Mail service or accept a buy out which is still too be negotaitaed.

There will be no agreement until pay , pensions and the pipeline issues are resolved and we are miles and miles apart on there.


How can we still be miles and miles apart?.

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 16:38

They want pay to be performance related, we don't.
They want a cash balance or DC pension scheme, we don't.
They want to move our start times by up to 2 hours, we don't.
That's miles apart and there are many more points of conflict.
What they've taken off the table was never really on the table so what's changed?

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 17:42

I would hope the cwu never agree to the team working long and short summer winter 3 bundle 2hr l8r start time plan, we will get thrown under the bus if cwu sacrifice that for the 35 week

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 18:29

fishtank wrote:They want pay to be performance related, we don't.
They want a cash balance or DC pension scheme, we don't.
They want to move our start times by up to 2 hours, we don't.
That's miles apart and there are many more points of conflict.
What they've taken off the table was never really on the table so what's changed?


Plus they still want us to cover delivery absences in "our team" without giving us any paid overtime?

National Update on Talks -Keep the Pressure up on Royal Mail : A Statement by the London Divisional Committee

11 Aug 2017, 19:26

Game theory - The Prisoners Dilemma. It goes like this :-

There are 4 possible level of rewards ; 1) 0 bananas , 2) 50 bananas 3) 100 bananas and 4) 250 bananas.

If RM betrays the CWU - but the CWU trusts RM - RM collect 250 bananas and we get zero bananas.
If CWU betrays RM - but RM trusts the CWU - we collect 250 bananas and RM gets zero bananas.

If we both betray each other we each get 50 bananas.

If we co-operate we each get 100 bananas.

The (Nash) equilibrium is that we both betray each other. Thats what you'd expect. Even though we'd both be better off by working together.


Problem is, is that our interests are divergent - and trust is thin on the ground.

My interests, as a union rep, are with the terms and conditions of the ordinary postie. The interests of the (higher) management are counter to our interests as they are working for the institutional shareholders.

Should the money go to the financiers ? Or to those that produce the profit ? Should the interests of the 2 dozen extremely wealthy individuals behind the ownership of RMG be paramount - or the interests of the 150 000 posties that work day in day out in all conditions and don't have 2 bits to scratch their arses with (for the most part) ?

Anyhow, to get back to the game theory (which is exactly what the negotiations are now based on), it turns out that where the dilemma is played over time and time again the most succesful strategy is not always (under all circumstances) co-operating, or always betraying. It is whats known as a 'tit for tat' strategy. That is, you start out trusting - but if the other fellow shafts you, then your next decision is based upon that ie. that you've been shafted. The other fellow can then have a think about the consequences of his duplicity.

Tit for tat.

I like it.

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