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EVR

12 Jan 2009, 20:46

Anyone know what sort of details the EVA (early voluntary redundancy) package is for someone aged 58. Heard its soon to be offered in our office.

Re: EVR

12 Jan 2009, 20:57

quite complicated mate,ask yir dom if he has a ready reckoner,(if he's worth his salt haha),he will take your details and get back to you with your projected amount,would also ask your rep to dbl check it with you

Re: EVR

12 Jan 2009, 22:26

From another post.

dingo wrote:VRs are covered by the MTSF agreement. The fact is if there is a surplus and the need for VRS then the first indivudals who get asked is those ageed between 55 and 65 in senioirity order. Then after it is based on seniority order down but with a cap on those who are ageed between 50 and 54 who may leave on the basis on TMA by mutural concent. If this still does not remove the surplus then MTSF allows those who are aged between 50 and 54 to leave on full terms albeit it Royal Mail have started to stop this happening on the grounds of cost.

There is no agreement to allow just part time staff to go in front of full time. The only way this should happen if the revision is purely based on part timers. If it based on both full time and part time staff then management are breaking the National Agreement and a disagreement should be raised at Area Level and if neccesary to Divisonal level who can refer a point of principle to our repsective headquaters.

The CWU have not agreed any changes to the MTSF, so it is not right to criticise .

Re: EVR

12 Jan 2009, 23:08

dunposting wrote:Anyone know what sort of details the EVA (early voluntary redundancy) package is for someone aged 58. Heard its soon to be offered in our office.


Depends on your length of service and whether you were in POSS or POPS.
I assume you were in POSS (before 1987).
If EVR is offered you have to express an interest, then the Pensions Section will give you an estimate
of what you will get, and you can then decide whether you want to accept it, or not.
You get up to an additional 6 years and eight months added to your service as long
as that doesn't take you to over the age of 60. So at 58 you would get an extra 2 years.
So if you've got 38 years service, you would get 2 years added giving you 40 years, which would give you
the full pension of half your pensionable wage. If you've got say 28 years service the added 2 years would
give you 30 years, which would give you 75% of the full pension.
Your pensionable pay incudes any pensionable allowances such as shift allowance and driving allowance.
If your pensionable pay is £20,000 pa, your pension would be £5,000 pa with 20 years service, with £250
more for each years additional service, to £10,000 pa at 40 years.
The lump sum (if you were in POSS) is three times your annual pension. You also get an 'enhanced redundancy
compensation' lump sum equivalent to 26 weeks basic pay.
You can also convert part of your annual pension into a larger lump sum if you want to.
I don't know about POPS. but I believe it's based on one sixtieth for every year's service rather than one eightieth
as in POSS, so you get a bigger pension (two-thirds of pensionable pay after 40 years), but you don't get a lump sum
unless you convert some of your pension.
Last edited by baldrick on 17 Jan 2009, 07:45, edited 2 times in total.

Re: EVR

13 Jan 2009, 10:35

dunposting wrote:Anyone know what sort of details the EVA (early voluntary redundancy) package is for someone aged 58. Heard its soon to be offered in our office.


hope this is of use to you,

LTB 412/07 - MTSF Age Discrimination

No. 412/2007
Ref: PTC/MA/dj/020
Date: 4th May 2007






TO ALL BRANCHES



Dear Colleagues



RE: MTSF Age Discrimination


Branches will be aware that we have been in discussions with management regarding changes required to the MTSF agreement to ensure compliance with age discrimination regulations. Lengthy discussions that began in September 2006, including meetings with our respective lawyers, were completed during April 2007.



I have attached the revised agreement alongside the revised wording in Appendix 2 which now replaces the existing pay protection section of MTSF. Set out below is an explanation to the changes that will be implemented on 1st June 2007:



SELECTION CRITERIA

The selection criteria for voluntary redundancy as contained in Appendix 5 of MTSF will remain unaltered. It has been agreed that Royal Mail will make an objective justification should that be challenged. Therefore the selection criteria will remain age and seniority based. The advice we received was that the age discrimination legislation had been drafted in the context of selection for compulsory redundancy, whilst the MTSF criteria are for selection of volunteers. The intention of the legislation is to protect people from the detriment of being dismissed from their jobs on grounds which directly or indirectly relate to their age. In cases of redundancy in Royal Mail the field of selection consists entirely of volunteers - people opt to be considered for redundancy it is not imposed on them. Therefore both parties believe that there would be little prospect of success for a claim bought under age discrimination legislation against Royal Mail for non selection for redundancy.



VOLUNTARY REDUNDANCY TERMS

Current MTSF redundancy terms provide differential levels of compensation based on age and length of service. Legal advice indicated that in order to remain legally compliant, the structure of redundancy payments needed to change to mirror the statutory redundancy scheme. It was therefore agreed to mirror the statutory scheme, uncapped, and with a multiplier applied. Management’s original offer produced far more losers than winners but through negotiations we reached an agreement on a multiplier of 3.75.



PEOPLE AGED 62 AND OVER

Branches will be aware that LTB 623/06 advised branches that paragraph 2.5 of Appendix 6 of the current MTSF agreement had been altered and therefore there would be no abatement to redundancy compensation for those aged over 62. Branches will note that this agreement clearly states that there will be no abatement for people aged 62 and over. Those who have entered the ‘duty to consider’ process prior to normal retirement (i.e. are aged 64 ½ or over) will not normally be eligible for voluntary redundancy.



RESOURCING PROCESS

Section 7 of the MTSF 2 agreement headed “Pay Protection Resourcing” had specific references giving priority to people aged between 50 and 60 in the resourcing process contained within MTSF. This is no longer lawful. The resourcing process remains the same except there is no longer a change in priority and the sections referring to those aged between 50 and 60 are no longer applicable.



PAY PROTECTION

A new version of Appendix 2 of the MTSF agreement is attached. The only changes are to paragraphs 5.3.2 and 5.3.3.



In respect of 5.3.2, we have for some time been debating with management ways of resolving an anomaly affecting employees who increased their pensionable allowance earnings in the calendar year prior to the date of MTSF pay protection application. Hitherto, pay protection has only been calculated for the period of time on the higher allowance, with any period on a lower level of pensionable allowance disregarded which immediately proceeded it. In the future pay protection will instead be calculated against the pensionable allowance earnings in the role previous to one that they have been displaced from. This will now provide a lower level of weekly / monthly pay protection but a longer protection period with the duration of pay protected determined by the was in continuous receipt of pensionable allowances. For example, an individual on late shift for 7 years who moved to a night shift 11 months prior to being displaced would previously have received 17 weeks compensation at night shift rate. They will now receive 3 years compensation at late shift rate.



Paragraph 5.3.3 deals with the protection of pensionable allowances to employees aged 50 or more. During our many months of discussions the main issue of difficulty was around the removal of the differential pay protection for those aged between 50 and 59. Advice from our lawyers was that the present terms were very likely to be deemed discriminatory. Following further legal advice we placed a proposal before management that suggested the final third of any pay protection for people over 50 would be deferred and paid as a pensionable lump sum in the last month prior to leaving the business or reaching 40 years pensionable service. This has the effect of preserving the level of final salary pensionable pay, whilst not being discriminatory under the legislation.



We believe on the basis of the advice received from our lawyers that the changes to the agreement are a sensible way forward that protects our existing agreement. In the current climate we need an agreement to safeguard our members that is not in breach of the age discrimination regulations. At the Postal Executive Committee meeting dated 1st May 2007 the Committee endorsed the changes to the MTSF agreement. Branches should be aware that these changes will be implemented from 1st June.







Any enquiries to Ray Ellis’s office, quoting reference PTC/MA/dj/020.
Email address: rellis@cwu.org


Yours sincerely

Ray Ellis,

Assistant Secretary

Re: EVR

13 Jan 2009, 10:39

POSTMAN wrote:From another post.

dingo wrote:VRs are covered by the MTSF agreement. The fact is if there is a surplus and the need for VRS then the first indivudals who get asked is those ageed between 55 and 65 in senioirity order. Then after it is based on seniority order down but with a cap on those who are ageed between 50 and 54 who may leave on the basis on TMA by mutural concent. If this still does not remove the surplus then MTSF allows those who are aged between 50 and 54 to leave on full terms albeit it Royal Mail have started to stop this happening on the grounds of cost.

There is no agreement to allow just part time staff to go in front of full time. The only way this should happen if the revision is purely based on part timers. If it based on both full time and part time staff then management are breaking the National Agreement and a disagreement should be raised at Area Level and if neccesary to Divisonal level who can refer a point of principle to our repsective headquaters.

The CWU have not agreed any changes to the MTSF, so it is not right to criticise .


i understand if my postings throw more mud into some already very muddy waters, although i hope they help.

LTB 831/2007 - MTSF Appendix 4 Buy Down (Hours) Policy

No. 831/2007
Ref: PTC/MA/dj/020
Date: 21ST September 2007






TO ALL BRANCHES





Dear Colleague



RE: MTSF APPENDIX 4 BUY DOWN (HOURS) POLICY


We have recently received enquiries regarding individual members who have in the past taken a buy down of hours, received compensation in line with Appendix 4 of the MTSF agreement and have subsequently applied for voluntary redundancy. Management in some areas have stated in a number of cases that to receive the redundancy individuals would have to pay back an element of the compensation they accepted for moving to part time hours.



Having discussed the matter with the business the cases in question have now been settled. No individual will receive an abatement of any money in respect of previous buy down of hours payments. We are now of the opinion that the wording set out within the policy needs to be revised. I have attached the revised wording. Branches will note that 5.7b will now read as follows:



b) upon termination of his/her employment except by reason of redundancy, or on increasing working hours or returning to full time work on a permanent basis, during the period of two years immediately following the Buy Down (“the Compensation Period”), he/she will refund a proportion of the Compensation Payment to Royal Mail equivalent to the unexpired portion of the Compensation Period.



Obviously the wording that has been added is except by reasons of redundancy.



Therefore we would ask all branches to replace their current appendix 4 with new guidelines that are attached.



Any enquiries to Ray Ellis’s office, quoting reference PTC/MA/dj/020.
Email address: rellis@cwu.org


Yours sincerely




Ray Ellis,

Assistant Secretary

Re: EVR

21 Jul 2009, 10:22

what percentage of your pension can be converted to a extra lump sum--- cheers

Re: EVR

14 Aug 2009, 19:47

BALDRICK with regards to your post above ,are the pension entitlements mentioned payable from 60 or from the date of your EVR -----cheers

Re: EVR

14 Aug 2009, 20:50

stodgy88 wrote:BALDRICK with regards to your post above ,are the pension entitlements mentioned payable from 60 or from the date of your EVR -----cheers


I was replying to dunposting's query, so it was in answer to what he would get if
he took EVR at 58. It would be approximately the same as if he took his pension
at age 60, but he would get the 26 weeks extra 'enhancement' if he took EVR
before 60. You should be getting your Annual Pension Statement soon, which will
give you your personal amounts.

Re: EVR

15 Aug 2009, 07:58

if i take EVR at 52 ,do i have to wait till 60 for my pension,or is it payable straightaway-cheers

Re: EVR

15 Aug 2009, 09:54

stodgy88 wrote:if i take EVR at 52 ,do i have to wait till 60 for my pension,or is it payable straightaway-cheers


I don't think you would get EVR at 52. In my MC you can only get it if you are 55 or older.
At 52 you can only get Voluntary Redundancy (a lump sum dependent on your age and
length of service) or Termination by Mutual Agreement, where you get a reduced pension
and at the moment I believe it is reduced by 5% for every year before 60, after March
2010 when the pension age is raised to 65 I presume it will be reduced for every year
before 65. I don't know whether you would still be able to get it between 50-54 then,
the age for TMA will probably be raised to 55-59.

stodgy88, I'm not a pensions expert. I just take an interest as I am approaching pension
age myself and I only know about the former POSS scheme, not POPS.
I suggest you ring the Pensions Helpline on 0114 241 4545 for detailed advice, or email
them at pensions.helpline@royalmail.com

Re: EVR

18 Aug 2009, 07:38

cheers --i,ll leave you in peace now-

Re: EVR

18 Aug 2009, 11:00

To try and answer the questions correctly, as some of the posts are misleading.

If you are aged between 50 and 60 the full VR terms are as follows:

The redundancy compensation is six months pay - not so many weeks for so many years (this is for under 50's and over 60's)

PLUS

Immediate payment of an enhanced pension and lump sum (if applicable - depends on which scheme you're in).

The enhanced bit is as follows:

Your pension is enhanced by the addition of up to a maximum of 6 and 2/3rd years service, or that which you would have got at age 60 (so long as it doesn't double the total length of service).

So for example if you are 58 with say 25 years service - you would get an additional 2 years added, so you pension would be calculated on 27 years. Your pension (+lump sum) would then be paid immediately. If you are 54, you'd get an extra 6 years. If you were 52 you'd only get 6 and 2/3rd years.

These "full" terms are always available to those aged 55 - 60 and they also apply to those aged 50 -54, so long as there is no over-subscription of volunteers for VR. e.g.if there are 5 VR's on offer and only 5 or less apply for VR under a preference exercise - the full terms should apply to those aged 50 - 54.

However, if there are more volunteers than VRs. e.g 6 apply for 5 VR's then the full terms do NOT apply to those aged 50 -54, only the inferior terms known as TMA (Termination by Mutual Agreement) are available.

The full version of the MTSF agreement was recently updated and published by CWU HQ. I think you'll find it as a sticky in the downloads section on this site.

The golden rule with MTSF and VR's is always to seek advice from someone who actually understands the agreement. I've heard some real horror stories of what people "think" the agreement says!

Always! Always! Always! - take proper advice from your rep or another who knows the agreement.

Re: EVR

18 Aug 2009, 19:26

thanks VANMAN

Re: EVR

18 Aug 2009, 20:25

I've got a preserved pension in the old POSSS scheme and I've been in the POPS scheme for 11 years.

As I've just turned 55 :dance does anyone know if I took EVR would my preserved pension become payable immediateley as well?

Obviously I'd double check when I applied, just wondering really! :wink: